[Fletcher: Where do the Angels go from here?] But it's not our money!

[DMVol]

....We weren't a 98 win team.  We were more a high 88-90 win team under the best circumstances.  Richards, Shoemaker, Cowgill, and I would argue offensively Iannetta over achieved....

In the immortal words of Bill Parcells, you are what your record says you are....

Edited October 8, 2014 by DMVol

[Angel Oracle]

We definitely need more starters. Dipoto's gonna have to pull some more rabbits from his hat.

Focus on the second/third level starter guys along with Russell Martin and a LOOGY.

[Angel Oracle]

If the Angels could have gotten a No. 3 starter for Kendrick, they would have traded him last year. Now he has even less value because he is only signed for one more year.

 

If they trade Kendrick, it will be some sort of prospect with upside (like another Skaggs, but only one, not a Skaggs and Santiago as they got for Trumbo) or just a dump to clear the salary.

 

And they can't really trade Aybar because they have no one to replace him.

To me, Aybar means more than Kendrick, and not just due to org depth.

Maybe Kendrick could fetch a #4 starter?    Then if Nibs continues to suck, he's done here and Santiago moves into that last rotation spot to join GRich, Weave, Shoemaker, and that #4 starter.

Edited October 8, 2014 by Angel Oracle

[Bruce Nye]

The goal every year for top teams is to win the WS, but this year the 4 of the top teams in MLB didn't make it out of the division series.  Sorry folks, but it is a crap shoot.  

 

The goal is to make the post season, like Arte said this year.  This team with some tweaks will be back in the post season barring some craziness.  One area I would like to see improvement is the catcher position.  Conger was not reliable this year on both sides of the plate.

[DMVol]

....And to those who say not winning in the playoffs means not being sucessful, go screw yourselves....

I look at it like this....if your only critera for a successful season is a world championship, then 29 teams are a failure in any given year....maybe that's ok....but I would say we had a very successful season that didn't end well...the playoff flop tempers a 98 win regular season but it doesn't discount or minimize the achievment....and if wins in April or July mean nothing to you, then you're following the wrong sport....part of the beauty of baseball is its pace, literally the relative laid back pace of a game (at least as opposed to football or basketball) but also the long season, enjoying the ups and surviving the downs.....

Edited October 8, 2014 by DMVol

[WallyWorld]

If the Angels could have gotten a No. 3 starter for Kendrick, they would have traded him last year. Now he has even less value because he is only signed for one more year.

 

If they trade Kendrick, it will be some sort of prospect with upside (like another Skaggs, but only one, not a Skaggs and Santiago as they got for Trumbo) or just a dump to clear the salary.

 

And they can't really trade Aybar because they have no one to replace him.

 

Thanks for chiming in, Jeff. 

I'd personally be inclined to trade Kendrick this winter for a Skaggs type. But that may be because I'm down on Howie and I'm overestimating Green's abilities.

[Hollyw00d]

The reality is, it's still not our money. 

 

Carry on.

How do you think the angels make the vast majority of their revenue?

Welfare?

[Mark68]

What I would LIKE to see, probably won't happen.

 

Lester. Legit #1. We need this to set our rotation (Lester/Richards/Weaver/Shoemaker/Wilson). This would give us a very good rotation, even if there are regressions from Richards & Shoemaker, decline from Weaver, & continued unreliability from Wilson (and inconsistency of Santiago). To buffer against these possibilities, we may need to make a trade, sending a current major leaguer to get another pitcher or a pitching prospect back.

 

This is one way in which acquiring Beckham might have been a safety valve...in case Kendrick is traded.

 

I think Freese has shown enough in the last couple of months to stay.

 

Maybe some bullpen tweaking....obviously Street, Jepsen, & Smith stay. I think we need to keep Pestano. Maybe Bedrosian (or possibly Diaz) gets his shit together in spring training.

[Angelsjunky]

Who do we have for the month of April until Richards is ready?  Who will we have if he has a set back?

 

Who do we have if Wilson continues with his Blanton imitation?

 

Well until Richards is back, Santiago is in the rotation. Hopefully the Angels have a sense now if Wilson is fixable. Or they see how looks in spring training and make an emergency signing then if he is done for. Another option would be converting Rasmus.

 

The reality is, it's still not our money. 

 

Carry on. 

 

Thanks for the insightful contribution.

[19HALO71]

As far as pitching goes, why not give Rasmus  a shot? It appeared to me that when Richards was given the vote of confidence that he had a spot in the rotation he really took off. Tell Rasmus that the 4/5 slot is his to lose and run him out there for 5 starts and see what we have.

[WallyWorld]

As far as pitching goes, why not give Rasmus  a shot? It appeared to me that when Richards was given the vote of confidence that he had a spot in the rotation he really took off. Tell Rasmus that the 4/5 slot is his to lose and run him out there for 5 starts and see what we have.

 

I agree. What's the worst thing that can happen - he struggles and you convert him back to the long guy in the pen. I'd rather roll the dice with Rasmus in the first few weeks of the season than CJ. That dude looks done.

[Ohtaniland]

The luxury tax is based on average annual values which are different than the actual cash flow. Mike Trout, for example, has an AAV of $24M when next year he's only making $6M. The difference is smaller for other guys. Also, it includes about $10M for pre-arb guys and about $10M for bonuses and benefits.

And Santiago and Richards are also arb eligible.

http://m.ocregister.com/angels/angels-633036-million-budget.html

So basically we are already "all in" and any big acquisition this offseason would create a structural deficit. Poor Arte just wants to win a championship and each and every season that passes he gets burned by many of the Big Name signings that he committed to. Arte may never win a championship because he's paying for over inflated steroid era salaries while getting post-steroid era performances. Pujols and Hamilton are aging veterans and they're not going to get better. I'm not saying that they were users but they both benefited because of that era. Now Arte is stuck with the bill.

[stormngt]

In the immortal words of Bill Parcells, you are what your record says you are....

Parcells knows a football team undefeated one season is no guarantee to be undefeated again.  He recognizes that in sports there are teams who play over their heads.

[Inside Pitch]

Can someone explain the $180m figure? $121m in contracts, and the only arbitration eligible players looking at meaningful increases are Freese and Jepsen, right? What am I missing...

 

Not sure I follow, but it may have to do with cap figures being based on average yearly salary Vs. actual in season salary.

 

Again, for those of you holding the 98 win season in high regard in relation to Scioscia keeping his job, why would we need to make a single move to the roster that won 98 games???

 

You guys can't have it both ways.   

 

 

Because they can't spend a full 6 months going with a bullpen day....  Because they can't go all of next year with CJ Wilson alternating between mediocre and being done quicker than minute rice.....  It doesn't take much to realize that MS and company used the September rosters to their advantage and kept the team afloat where they might not have been able to under any normal conditions.

Edited October 8, 2014 by Inside Pitch

[stormngt]

Well until Richards is back, Santiago is in the rotation. Hopefully the Angels have a sense now if Wilson is fixable. Or they see how looks in spring training and make an emergency signing then if he is done for. Another option would be converting Rasmus.

 

 

Thanks for the insightful contribution.

Is it possible that Rasmus success as a starter this year is due to the fact he face the lineup three times through?

 

Wasn't he a failure as as starter in the minors, thus moving him to the pen to begin with?

 

Rasmus might be a possible solution but fact is I don't think the Angels can bet their season on it...nor can they bet their season that Wilson isn't the left handed Joe Blanton next year.

[mtangelsfan]

Again, for those of you holding the 98 win season in high regard in relation to Scioscia keeping his job, why would we need to make a single move to the roster that won 98 games???

 

You guys can't have it both ways.   

 

If someone came up to us last season and said, hey here are some big contracts, Hamilton will suck, pujols will continue to not be what he was in STL, Trout will slow down, two key starters will have devastating injuries but you will win 98 games with this list of players -- you would have all taken it.

 

Wow, what a horrible argument.  Every team tries to get better.  Every single one. 

 

Also, as others have pointed out, the team did better than anyone expected.  I certainly know way better than you expected, yet you will give zero credit to Sosh for that but all the blame for the loss of a three game series.  Talk about having it both ways. 

 

The Angels have holes, we see it, you see it, they see it.  They need to fill them to get better.

[Inside Pitch]

To me, Aybar means more than Kendrick, and not just due to org depth.

Maybe Kendrick could fetch a #4 starter?    Then if Nibs continues to suck, he's done here and Santiago moves into that last rotation spot to join GRich, Weave, Shoemaker, and that #4 starter.

If that's all you can get for Kendrick, then sign a number four starter because 4-5 WAR players don't grow on trees and ones that only make 8.5 Mil are a massive bargain.   

[Guest]

So basically we are already "all in" and any big acquisition this offseason would create a structural deficit. Poor Arte just wants to win a championship and each and every season that passes he gets burned by many of the Big Name signings that he committed to. Arte may never win a championship because he's paying for over inflated steroid era salaries while getting post-steroid era performances. Pujols and Hamilton are aging veterans and they're not going to get better. I'm not saying that they were users but they both benefited because of that era. Now Arte is stuck with the bill.

He's not "all in". There isn't a law against going over the luxury tax. It's a tax. It's actually quite minor unless you're substantially over the cutoff for multiple consecutive years. That means you can go over, even way over for a year or two to take advantage of a window of opportunity without the tax being a big deal, but you can't buy your way to being a perennial contender anymore. Even the Yankees have taken efforts to dial back and cut their payroll to get under the cutoff (and reset the repeat offender penalties)

If Arte is going to continue to treat the luxury tax threshold as a self-imposed budget limit then the decision to dedicate such a huge percentage of the budget to Hamilton and Pujols was a lot more foolish than it appeared at the time.

Edited October 8, 2014 by ScottLux

[Inside Pitch]

Focus on the second/third level starter guys along with Russell Martin and a LOOGY.

 

Russell Martin would just eat up money and disappoint.  He's another in a long line of familiar names that fans fawn over and then regret signing.   Martin is a career .224/.317/.405 hitter in the AL and all that was spent in NY's bandbox.  The guy combined for a .702 OPS (92 OPS+) in his age 26-30 seasons and then suddenly busts out for an .832 OPS (136 OPS+) season at age 31 before entering FA....  Its forest for the trees time IMO.

[Inside Pitch]

So basically we are already "all in" and any big acquisition this offseason would create a structural deficit. Poor Arte just wants to win a championship and each and every season that passes he gets burned by many of the Big Name signings that he committed to. Arte may never win a championship because he's paying for over inflated steroid era salaries while getting post-steroid era performances. Pujols and Hamilton are aging veterans and they're not going to get better. I'm not saying that they were users but they both benefited because of that era. Now Arte is stuck with the bill.

 

Would seeing him fail make you happier than the Angels winning?  Sometimes it really reads like you would rather it worked out that way/

[Inside Pitch]

Im of the opinion that if they do spend money it should probably be on Andrew Miller, this year's Phil Hughes, and possibly a middle IFer to provide insurance at SS.  If they end up slotting Rasmus into the rotation they will need to fill those innings.  

FTR, I like Rucinski as depth and will be will be paying attention to how Nate Smith does in the AFL.   A good showing there may get him an invite to ST...  Not saying he should make the team next year because that's an awful lot of innings in a calendar year, but it will be interesting to see how he does in a showcase league like the AFL.   I'd also like to see them move Danny Reynolds to the 40 man and remove one of the two OF stiffs they just claimed from Zona...  Reynolds is Rule V eligible this year and he's got an arm with some upside.

[Oz27]

Yeah, the rotation next year will likely be:

 

Richards

Weaver

Shoemaker

Wilson

Free Agent

 

With Santiago as the sixth starter/long relief.

I'm interested in trying to stretch Rasmus out into a proper starter too.

 

But I do agree with you, I imagine we'll find a way to bring in a third or fourth starter on a free agency or trade deal. Either way we need another, otherwise trying to we really need every one of Richards (coming off injury), Shoemaker (relying on him to stay good after really just showing it for half a season), Wilson (terrible lack of talent) and Santiago (inconsistency) to be capable. That wouldn't be a comfortable position to be in.

[mtangelsfan]

I think the stretching Rasmus idea is sketchy.  I'm guessing if the Angels management believed he was capable of being stretched they would have done so.  My opinion is his success came from being able to throw hard knowing he wasn't going more than four innings.  I just don't think it is something the team should count on moving forward.

[QuinlansMinion]

The goal every year for top teams is to win the WS, but this year the 4 of the top teams in MLB didn't make it out of the division series. Sorry folks, but it is a crap shoot.

The goal is to make the post season, like Arte said this year. This team with some tweaks will be back in the post season barring some craziness. One area I would like to see improvement is the catcher position. Conger was not reliable this year on both sides of the plate.

Nope sorrt but it isnt. The Giants and Cardinals are regulars in the Nlcs, doesnt matter what happened in the regular season.

The Tigers have a terrible pen. The Angels cant hit with Risp.

[mtangelsfan]

Nope sorrt but it isnt. The Giants and Cardinals are regulars in the Nlcs, doesnt matter what happened in the regular season.

The Tigers have a terrible pen. The Angels cant hit with Risp.

 

and yet they scored the most runs in MLB.  Go figure.