[Fletcher: Where do the Angels go from here?] But it's not our money!

[DMVol]

AJ, it isn't our money but what Fletcher forgot is the Angels did sign a lucrative long term contract this season. Of course that guy went off and led the league inbl strikeouts so I guess it isn't paying off either.

Wut?

[tomsred]

Arte's "win now" window is closing, so he has to decide to go all-in or fold.

 

I don't think "win now" windows are part of this organization's thinking.  They expressed numerous times that they want to be permanent contenders.  Unless the entire organization changes, I don't think you will ever see a rebuilding year.  That may be a flawed strategy, but I believe that's the one they have chosen.

[Jay]

Wut?

 

He's talking about Trout's contract.

[IEAngelsfan]

If they're thinking of bringing back Thatcher, that would be a big mistake.

[Jeff Fletcher]

Can someone explain the $180m figure? $121m in contracts, and the only arbitration eligible players looking at meaningful increases are Freese and Jepsen, right? What am I missing...

The luxury tax is based on average annual values which are different than the actual cash flow. Mike Trout, for example, has an AAV of $24M when next year he's only making $6M. The difference is smaller for other guys. Also, it includes about $10M for pre-arb guys and about $10M for bonuses and benefits.

And Santiago and Richards are also arb eligible.

http://m.ocregister.com/angels/angels-633036-million-budget.html

[Mark68]

The rotation will need to be addressed. With Skaggs out for 2015 and Richards' status for the beginning of the year questionable, as well as Wilson's unreliability, the Angels have to acquire at least one (if not two) starters. If Arte is serious about not going into the luxury tax zone, then Scherzer, Lester, and Shields are non-starters.

 

Although I would be ecstatic with a pursuit of Lester, who wouldn't cost a draft pick, it's probably not going to happen.

 

What does this mean? Probably a backend starter via free agency, or a trade of either Kendrick or Aybar for a mid-rotation starter.

 

If there is a free agent signing of, say, Martin, Headley, or Panda, there WILL be a trade of one of our middle infielders.

 

There will be changes that many of us won't like, but will need to be made.

[Hollyw00d]

Arte could give panhandling a shot, I heard that's a pretty good racket

[Jobu]

Arte could give panhandling a shot, I heard that's a pretty good racket

Did he lose his job in the economic downturn?

[Jobu]

The luxury tax is based on average annual values which are different than the actual cash flow. Mike Trout, for example, has an AAV of $24M when next year he's only making $6M. The difference is smaller for other guys. Also, it includes about $10M for pre-arb guys and about $10M for bonuses and benefits.

And Santiago and Richards are also arb eligible.

http://m.ocregister.com/angels/angels-633036-million-budget.html

Thanks.

I hope Arte's aversion to the luxury tax helps them avoid another under performing contract.

[bloodbrother]

The rotation will need to be addressed. With Skaggs out for 2015 and Richards' status for the beginning of the year questionable, as well as Wilson's unreliability, the Angels have to acquire at least one (if not two) starters. If Arte is serious about not going into the luxury tax zone, then Scherzer, Lester, and Shields are non-starters.

 

Although I would be ecstatic with a pursuit of Lester, who wouldn't cost a draft pick, it's probably not going to happen.

 

What does this mean? Probably a backend starter via free agency, or a trade of either Kendrick or Aybar for a mid-rotation starter.

 

If there is a free agent signing of, say, Martin, Headley, or Panda, there WILL be a trade of one of our middle infielders.

 

There will be changes that many of us won't like, but will need to be made.

 

I think they sign one quality starter for the rotation and then look for bargain bin pickups for minor league "depth"

[nando714]

Sign a starter like

Justin Masterson

Ryan Vogolsong

Ryan Dempster (took a yr off. Maybe it helped? )

Jake Peavy

Someone who can be a solid 3/4 when Richards gets back and I'll be happy

Also a lefty reliever.

[bloodbrother]

Sign a starter like

Justin Masterson

Ryan Vogolsong

Ryan Dempster (took a yr off. Maybe it helped? )

Jake Peavy

Someone who can be a solid 3/4 when Richards gets back and I'll be happy

Also a lefty reliever.

 

Andrew MIller would be awesome but after the year he had he'll get a nice contract

[nando714]

Andrew MIller would be awesome but after the year he had he'll get a nice contract

Ya I'm thinking tigers or dodgers who desperately need bp help

Edited October 8, 2014 by nando714

[The Ghost of Bob Starr]

Again, for those of you holding the 98 win season in high regard in relation to Scioscia keeping his job, why would we need to make a single move to the roster that won 98 games???

 

You guys can't have it both ways.   

 

If someone came up to us last season and said, hey here are some big contracts, Hamilton will suck, pujols will continue to not be what he was in STL, Trout will slow down, two key starters will have devastating injuries but you will win 98 games with this list of players -- you would have all taken it.

[DMVol]

Sign a starter like

Justin Masterson

Ryan Vogolsong

Ryan Dempster (took a yr off. Maybe it helped? )

Jake Peavy

Someone who can be a solid 3/4 when Richards gets back and I'll be happy

Also a lefty reliever.

I don't think we're going after any of the big fish either....might add to that list McCarthy, Liriano, Volquez and maybe in a back to future move, Ervin Santana....if your scouts like somebody coming off a bad year and you want to buy low maybe Kyle Kendrick, Jason Hammel.....

[Jay]

Again, for those of you holding the 98 win season in high regard in relation to Scioscia keeping his job, why would we need to make a single move to the roster that won 98 games???

 

You guys can't have it both ways.   

 

If someone came up to us last season and said, hey here are some big contracts, Hamilton will suck, pujols will continue to not be what he was in STL, Trout will slow down, two key starters will have devastating injuries but you will win 98 games with this list of players -- you would have all taken it.

 

I think what people are saying is Scioscia pulled the right levers to allow the team to win 98 games even though they had all these injury problems and other issues.

[stormngt]

Arte's "win now" window is closing, so he has to decide to go all-in or fold.

If he wants to win big next year he has to go over the salary cap.  There are no if or buts about it.

 

This years team over achieved.  "Just tweaking it" means you are hoping they over achieve again.

 

The team needs two starters:

You cannot rely on Wilson.  Any pitcher you pull after only two outs in the playoffs is a pitcher you can't rely on.  If he bounces back great, but if you rely on him you may have another Blanton on your hands.

 

Richards is out for at least a month, and when he comes back there is no guarantee he pitchers like the stud he was.

 

You need a middle of the order bat because Hamilton can't get it done anymore.  I am not advocating a DFA.  He could come back and be a solid back end of lineup hitter.  But two poor seasons in a row shows he will no longer be close to the All Star he once was. 

 

Everything else needs does not need a lot.  I am fine with Freeze at 3rd.  I am happy with the bullpen so long as Thatcher is nowhere near an Angel uniform.

[Chuck]

The reality is, it's still not our money. 

 

Carry on. 

[Blarg]

Again, for those of you holding the 98 win season in high regard in relation to Scioscia keeping his job, why would we need to make a single move to the roster that won 98 games???

 

You guys can't have it both ways.   

 

If someone came up to us last season and said, hey here are some big contracts, Hamilton will suck, pujols will continue to not be what he was in STL, Trout will slow down, two key starters will have devastating injuries but you will win 98 games with this list of players -- you would have all taken it.

Yes. Now what does that have to do with moving forward next season? Baseball never remains stationary in terms of competition. Your teams off season moves are matched by the competitions and you won't know until the end if all those changes made a difference.

Last season the Angels won 78 games, nearly the entire bullpen changed over along with two new starters. The only real addition to the starting fielders was Freese. The adjustments netted about twenty more wins. This offcseason requires fewer adjustments so what kind of fool stands pat when you could repeat the sucess of this season by making those few changes.

And to those who say not winning in the playoffs means not being sucessful, go screw yourselves.

[stormngt]

Yeah, the rotation next year will likely be:

 

Richards

Weaver

Shoemaker

Wilson

Free Agent

 

With Santiago as the sixth starter/long relief.

Who do we have for the month of April until Richards is ready?  Who will we have if he has a set back?

 

Who do we have if Wilson continues with his Blanton imitation?

[Jay]

And to those who say not winning in the playoffs means not being sucessful, go screw yourselves.

[stormngt]

I don't think "win now" windows are part of this organization's thinking.  They expressed numerous times that they want to be permanent contenders.  Unless the entire organization changes, I don't think you will ever see a rebuilding year.  That may be a flawed strategy, but I believe that's the one they have chosen.

2010 and 2011 should have been rebuilding years.

[WallyWorld]

What does this mean? Probably a backend starter via free agency, or a trade of either Kendrick or Aybar for a mid-rotation starter.

 

I've suggested this before, but I believe Jeff Fletcher said (and he would know better than any of us) that neither of those guys would bring back a mid-rotation starter based on what he's heard about trade talks with other GMs. If I'm putting words in your mouth, Jeff, I apologize, but I thought I remembered you saying that on here before.

[stormngt]

Again, for those of you holding the 98 win season in high regard in relation to Scioscia keeping his job, why would we need to make a single move to the roster that won 98 games???

 

You guys can't have it both ways.   

 

If someone came up to us last season and said, hey here are some big contracts, Hamilton will suck, pujols will continue to not be what he was in STL, Trout will slow down, two key starters will have devastating injuries but you will win 98 games with this list of players -- you would have all taken it.

 

Its called over achieving.  Playing better than expected!  We weren't a 98 win team.  We were more a high 88-90 win team under the best circumstances.  Richards, Shoemaker, Cowgill, and I would argue offensively Iannetta over achieved.

 

In the bullpen Jespen over achieved.

 

Our depth:  Navarro, Green, and Cron all come up and played big for a short period of time. 

 

Should we count on all those things going our way again?

[Jeff Fletcher]

I've suggested this before, but I believe Jeff Fletcher said (and he would know better than any of us) that neither of those guys would bring back a mid-rotation starter based on what he's heard about trade talks with other GMs. If I'm putting words in your mouth, Jeff, I apologize, but I thought I remembered you saying that on here before.

If the Angels could have gotten a No. 3 starter for Kendrick, they would have traded him last year. Now he has even less value because he is only signed for one more year.

 

If they trade Kendrick, it will be some sort of prospect with upside (like another Skaggs, but only one, not a Skaggs and Santiago as they got for Trumbo) or just a dump to clear the salary.

 

And they can't really trade Aybar because they have no one to replace him.