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When was an Angel as universally disliked as Hamilton?


Oz27

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I like how it's become as politically incorrect to question Hamilton's effort here now as it was to question GA's.

 

I see it like this: He might care, he might not care. He certainly doesn't appear to be caring from watching on TV. 

 

But I don't care if he cares or not. Only thing I care about is the production, which is awful. This team has had a ton of try hards that sucked. I'd take a lazy guy who could produce over one of those guys (Hamilton is clearly not a productive player though obviously)

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People need to remember that there is no reason to dislike him PERSONALLY.  You may dislike his performance for our team, but has he kicked your dog?  We need to not make it so personal.  

 

I think he does care what the fans think of him, and he cares a lot. ...but his emotional maturity is that of a 15 year old boy. He thinks smirking, dismissing criticism, and acting unaffected makes him look cool. And that makes it so much worse.

 

I never thought he was a great human being, regardless of his very public demonstrations of piety, but he was an incredible player. ...but his raw ability allowed him to be a superstar without really learning his craft. He's a guy that exists on muscle memory and reflex. Those aren't attributes that age well, especially in the absence of the ability to make adjustments.

 

Many of us thought that the turning point for him was the 4 HR game against Baltimore in 2012. It was as if opposing pitchers realized that they just couldn't throw him strikes AT ALL or he'd punish them. ...so that's what they did. They tried to give him unintentional intentional walks and he couldn't stop flailing. That changed the book on him and he has never recovered. Even his body language changed from predator to a guy who looked like his at-bat was forfeit once he got down in the count. I'm curious if you guys see that same thing. I haven't watched enough of his games as a Angel to see it, but in the few I have seen it's been the same.

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I think he does care what the fans think of him, and he cares a lot. ...but his emotional maturity is that of a 15 year old boy. He thinks smirking, dismissing criticism, and acting unaffected makes him look cool. And that makes it so much worse.

 

I never thought he was a great human being, regardless of his very public demonstrations of piety, but he was an incredible player. ...but his raw ability allowed him to be a superstar without really learning his craft. He's a guy that exists on muscle memory and reflex. Those aren't attributes that age well, especially in the absence of the ability to make adjustments.

 

Many of us thought that the turning point for him was the 4 HR game against Baltimore in 2012. It was as if opposing pitchers realized that they just couldn't throw him strikes AT ALL or he'd punish them. ...so that's what they did. They tried to give him unintentional intentional walks and he couldn't stop flailing. That changed the book on him and he has never recovered. Even his body language changed from predator to a guy who looked like his at-bat was forfeit once he got down in the count. I'm curious if you guys see that same thing. I haven't watched enough of his games as a Angel to see it, but in the few I have seen it's been the same.

You're absolutely right.  And yeah thats exactly how it feels every time hes at the plate.  It always ends up the same.  Changeup, swing and miss.  Changeup, swing and miss.  Changeup, swing and miss.  At this point nobody knows if he can even hit the ball anymore, because he never gets pitched to but gets himself out anyways.  

 

Just recently we saw video of him taking BP 2 hours before game time while hitting coach Don Baylor was watching him.  But yet every time he steps to the plate, its like hes never talked to a hitting coach in his life.  Ive never seen a professional athlete fail to make obvious adjustments the way Hamilton has.  Trout's problem is that he takes 1st pitch meatballs, Hamilton's problem is that he swings at everything.  If they switched approaches at the plate, they both would benefit.

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I think he does care what the fans think of him, and he cares a lot. ...but his emotional maturity is that of a 15 year old boy. He thinks smirking, dismissing criticism, and acting unaffected makes him look cool. And that makes it so much worse.

 

I never thought he was a great human being, regardless of his very public demonstrations of piety, but he was an incredible player. ...but his raw ability allowed him to be a superstar without really learning his craft. He's a guy that exists on muscle memory and reflex. Those aren't attributes that age well, especially in the absence of the ability to make adjustments.

 

Many of us thought that the turning point for him was the 4 HR game against Baltimore in 2012. It was as if opposing pitchers realized that they just couldn't throw him strikes AT ALL or he'd punish them. ...so that's what they did. They tried to give him unintentional intentional walks and he couldn't stop flailing. That changed the book on him and he has never recovered. Even his body language changed from predator to a guy who looked like his at-bat was forfeit once he got down in the count. I'm curious if you guys see that same thing. I haven't watched enough of his games as a Angel to see it, but in the few I have seen it's been the same.

 

I've been worried that the high inside strike situation is going to be the same thing. Trout was so successful on hitting pitches toward the bottom of, or slightly below, the zone for power because of a more vertical golf-like swing. This allowed him to be extremely succesful because pitchers, especially at the major league level, have years of training and muscle memory aimed at keeping balls down -- especially for their "out" pitches. In Trout's case however they've stoppsed pitching him down and for the most part he's reacted by either striking out looking, or popping out.

 

Howeve, since it's almost physically impossible to hit a high inside pitch with such a swing, I believe that adjusting to the high-inside pitch will necesarily take away his ability to crush low pitches. I'm afraid there's a strong possibility that Trout has irreversibly turned from a the next Mickey Mantle to a glorified Adam Dunn =(.

Edited by ScottLux
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Vern wasn't ever really very good. He was ok for a few seasons. Our retarded GM at the time had no idea how to evaluate talent. Vern did what Vern did and predictably sucked. I never hated Vern. Despite the "too blank to blank" tweets, I always thought Vern felt bad about sucking.

Hamilton? Such a strange person and player. He didn't go from B+ to B-. He went from A to D. Maybe F.

We can all sit here and hypothesize, but his downfall has been as remarkable as his once storybook redemption.

I am not sure that Josh has a true passion for the game.  He's an incredibly talented baseball player when he wants to be.  For him it seems a means to an end.  He achieved that end when he got his generation changing contract for him and his family.  He seems to approach the game as if people should cut him some slack for reasonable things like struggling after an injury or layoff and he doesn't get that his contract obliges him to a different set of standards and expectations.  

 

Fans are not reasonable.  It's just how it works.  Instead of fighting it, he needs to own what he's now obligated to and suck it up when it's called for.  

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Vernon Wells

Jeff Mathis

Gary Matthews Jr.

Steve Finley

Jobu is spot on here. And they, along with Hamilton have something in common... Scioscia kept on playing them despite the fact that the tea, was better with them on the bench.

Just goes to prove that history repeats itself. This has happened before. It WILL happen again. As long as Scioscia is Manager.

Edited by Brian Ilten
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LOL, teflon jerry gets the pass, sosh gets the blame.  Classic.

Scioscia doesn't have his hands tied behind his back with an extremely small discretionary budget remaining after owner-driven free agent decisions. He also doesn't have to work with a threat of a one-year-contract sword of Damocles hanging over his head, Sciosica is mid way through a 10 year guaranteed contract. Scisocia-managed rosters have underperformed in the playoffs for many years, with three different GM's. In the case of Dipoto, he hasn't been with the club long enoguh to make that judgment as of yet, the real key will be how succesful the players he drafted end up becoming in the Majors.

 

Free Collin Cowgill.

Edited by ScottLux
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If cowgill is the answer, then I think we are asking the wrong questions.  Even with Hamilton a shell of his former self, there isn't a player on the roster or remotely available with our resources capable of performing at a level that he can.  Cowgill is a 4th/5th OFer.  As much as Josh irks me, the team will be better off giving him another chance.  His downside is around where playing Cowgill everyday is.  

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Hamilton was my least favorite MLB player before he got here and nothing has changed.

He signs the contract then immediately shows up skinny as hell from some absurd "juice" diet. The next season in the ninth game he slides headfirst into 1st base with some faux hustle and then vows to do it again? That, combined with his "blindfolded kid trying to hit a pinata" at-bats has me completely out of patience with his BS.

CJ is ineffective but at least he cared enough to pitch through pain in 2012 with bone spurs in his elbow. He pitched well in '13 and early '14 before being ridden onto the ground (led MLB in pitches thrown) earlier in the year. I wouldn't be shocked if he's been pitching through some injury again.

Disar was my previous "least favorite" but at least he never stole his contract.

"blindfolded kid trying to hit a piñata " that's the perfect description
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If we were only going to use Cowgill as a pinch runner, why didnt we have Campana instead?  Doesnt make any sense why Cowgill would make it and not Campana, unless we were actually going to start Cowgill over Hamilton.

I imagine Cowgill was there as insurance for if the Hamilton thing get badly. But since it couldn't have gone much worse and he still didn't play, you have to wonder what the point of it was.

 

The one I wonder about more though is why we didn't carry Campana instead of one of the relievers. The bullpen had to throw a tonne of innings and it still didn't feel like we really needed every one of those guys.

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I am not sure that Josh has a true passion for the game. He's an incredibly talented baseball player when he wants to be. For him it seems a means to an end. He achieved that end when he got his generation changing contract for him and his family. He seems to approach the game as if people should cut him some slack for reasonable things like struggling after an injury or layoff and he doesn't get that his contract obliges him to a different set of standards and expectations.

Fans are not reasonable. It's just how it works. Instead of fighting it, he needs to own what he's now obligated to and suck it up when it's called for.

I agree and I surely see a lack of passion when he plays
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Hey, that's cool. The Rangers had a historically awful season, but I'm not the type that gets all wound up about it. I was pulling for the worst record in baseball so we'd get better draft picks, but they even failed me on that. ...and you guys will probably never feel a baseball pain as bad as our Game 6. I've got the thousand-yard stare. If it makes you feel better, pull up the video of Freese's double over Cruz. I can't watch it, but it'll probably give you a good laugh. :D

it was a triple, not a double and it was a thing of beauty.  But, let's be honest here...the Freese walk-off was pretty special too.:)

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I imagine Cowgill was there as insurance for if the Hamilton thing get badly. But since it couldn't have gone much worse and he still didn't play, you have to wonder what the point of it was.

 

The one I wonder about more though is why we didn't carry Campana instead of one of the relievers. The bullpen had to throw a tonne of innings and it still didn't feel like we really needed every one of those guys.

 

20/20 hindsight. Remember, we didn't know what we would get out of Shoemaker.

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