Iraqi and Syrian civilians don't count

[mtangelsfan]

Well, at least to Obama it seems:

 

http://news.yahoo.com/white-house-exempts-syria-airstrikes-from-tight-standards-on-civilian-deaths-183724795.html

 

 

How are we any better right now?

[Hollyw00d]

Yahoo comment sections make me weep for the future.

[mtangelsfan]

That John Oliver dialogue on drones was depressing too.  63%?

 

This country deserves to fail.

[Don]

Simply impossible to avoid. Drones, bombers, cruise missiles, whatever... Innocent people always die. If we don't want that blood on our hands, then we shouldn't be involved at all. Then again, if we're not involved at all, lots of people there will blame our lack of action for the death of innocents. Damned if we do, damned if we don't.

[mtangelsfan]

I say BS to that.  If you want something badly enough, you make it happen.  If the military or the U.S. government really felt that civilian deaths were important, they would find a way to negate them.

[Hollyw00d]

Then again, if we're not involved at all, lots of people there will blame our lack of action for the death of innocents. Damned if we do, damned if we don't.

Then eventually they'll realize we're really not going to get involved, and handle their own shit.

[Don]

The only way to ensure that we don't kill civilians is not to bomb anything. We can try to avoid killing them, but mistakes will be and are inevitably made. It's sad of course, but that's just the way it's happened since the introduction of modern warfare.

[Don]

Then eventually they'll realize we're really not going to get involved, and handle their own shit.

Hopefully true, but thirty years from now they'd still be blaming us for not stepping in to help.

[Jay]

Well, at least to Obama it seems:

 

http://news.yahoo.com/white-house-exempts-syria-airstrikes-from-tight-standards-on-civilian-deaths-183724795.html

 

 

How are we any better right now?

 

It's either this or "boots on the ground" I guess we have made our choice.

[TobiasFunke]

Hopefully true, but thirty years from now they'd still be blaming us for not stepping in to help.

Let them blame us. Why does that matter to us?

[floplag]

I say BS to that.  If you want something badly enough, you make it happen.  If the military or the U.S. government really felt that civilian deaths were important, they would find a way to negate them.

 

yes but they cant do that and keep the promise about our soldiers in an election season so...

 

[Don]

Let them blame us. Why does that matter to us?

It just keeps the anti-American sentiment alive there. But yeah, if I had to choose, I'd rather we were blamed for the deaths of people we had nothing to do with. At that point it's just their ignorance for not understanding how to actually hash out a society where everyone can get along reasonably well.

Vice just published a series in the last week or so (though it was filmed about two months ago I believe) called Ghosts of Aleppo that paints a pretty good picture of just how f#%ked everything, and really, everyone is there. Even the "moderates" that we are trying to support there seem like extremists by any western standard. The conflict is super complex and everyone is one hundred percent convinced they are in the right. I have a feeling this won't end until everyone just gets tired of death. Who knows how long that will take.

Edited September 30, 2014 by Don

[Don]

Ghosts of Aleppo link:

http://www.vice.com/vice-news/ghosts-of-aleppo-full-141

[TobiasFunke]

Don, who would hate America more if we weren't involved in the shit over there?

 

And no, Israel isn't an acceptable answer if that's what you're thinking

[Don]

Don, who would hate America more if we weren't involved in the shit over there?

 

And no, Israel isn't an acceptable answer if that's what you're thinking

I don't really know. Are you speaking about groups within Syria? I think the "moderates" wouldn't like it, but they're not going to like much of anything we do in the end. I think Assad's army is getting the most benefit out of our current efforts, so I imagine he wouldn't like it if we backed off (though I don't think he'd ever say that).

[TobiasFunke]

When you say,  "lots of people there will blame our lack of action for the death of innocents", I see that as Nations or at least important factions of the Middle East. If a group of rebel fights in Country X doesn't approve of America because we're not fighting who they want us to fight I say who gives a shit? That is why I disagree with the "damned if we don't".

[gotbeer]

Nice bulletin board material for ISIS.

[mtangelsfan]

Saudi Arabia was already pissed off at us for our inaction in Syria earlier in 2014.  I'm not saying this should sway us but our problem is the void we will leave. 

[tdawg87]

So I heard through the grapevine that a couple friends who live in the same neighborhood (not really close friends, just people I try to get along with) have a severe cockroach problem at their homes. It's getting kinda out of control. Even though the area has seen cockroach infestations come and go over the years, I've heard this is one of the worst. Their neighborhood has been fighting off cockroaches for decades now. There isn't really a whole lot they can do. Some move away, some try to accept the cockroaches and not bother fighting them. Others fight each other over what they should do about the problem.

 

So I went to their neighborhood and set off 200 tons of dynamite while they were sleeping. I killed at least a few hundred cockroaches I think.

[Blarg]

What a dumbass thing to do. Napalm is the solution, you have to kill it with fire otherwise all you are doing is displacing the roaches and making them find a new place to inhabit, like your place.

[Don]

When you say,  "lots of people there will blame our lack of action for the death of innocents", I see that as Nations or at least important factions of the Middle East. If a group of rebel fights in Country X doesn't approve of America because we're not fighting who they want us to fight I say who gives a shit? That is why I disagree with the "damned if we don't".

Sorry. Looking back, I can see why you may have interpreted it that way. But I just meant in the eyes of the people of Syria. There seem to be a lot of them that want US involvement to protect them from slaughter by Assad's forces, or ISIS, or Al Nusra. At the same time, if we do help, we'll surely take some heat for killing innocents as well.

[tdawg87]

Yes but I swear I killed one of their leaders. That had to scare the surviving ones off at least!

[gotbeer]

So I heard through the grapevine that a couple friends who live in the same neighborhood (not really close friends, just people I try to get along with) have a severe cockroach problem at their homes. It's getting kinda out of control. Even though the area has seen cockroach infestations come and go over the years, I've heard this is one of the worst. Their neighborhood has been fighting off cockroaches for decades now. There isn't really a whole lot they can do. Some move away, some try to accept the cockroaches and not bother fighting them. Others fight each other over what they should do about the problem.

 

So I went to their neighborhood and set off 200 tons of dynamite while they were sleeping. I killed at least a few hundred cockroaches I think.

 

Oh come on Tdawg.  You know you did it wrong.  What you are supposed to do is put up a picture of Mike Trout with a baseball bat in his hands.  This would scare the cockroaches to their neighbors house.  Then you get some illegal chemicals and try and gas the cockroaches, because who cares it's not your friend.  Of course you didn't tent, so the cockroaches go to the neighbors next door that is Jewish.  You try and bomb the cockroaches still, but their house is made of brick and mortal and it's hard to penetrate.  That's when the cops are called, and all hell breaks out in that neighborhood.  The cockroaches don't know what is going on, so they scatter everywhere, while everyone fights over who gets the Mike Trout picture to put in their house.  Eventually the picture gets torn, and the cockroaches win.

[Tank]

So I heard through the grapevine that a couple friends who live in the same neighborhood (not really close friends, just people I try to get along with) have a severe cockroach problem at their homes. It's getting kinda out of control. Even though the area has seen cockroach infestations come and go over the years, I've heard this is one of the worst. Their neighborhood has been fighting off cockroaches for decades now. There isn't really a whole lot they can do. Some move away, some try to accept the cockroaches and not bother fighting them. Others fight each other over what they should do about the problem.

 

So I went to their neighborhood and set off 200 tons of dynamite while they were sleeping. I killed at least a few hundred cockroaches I think.

 

indiana jones.

snake pit.

gasoline and a torch.

problem solved.

[Tank]

Yes but I swear I killed one of their leaders. That had to scare the surviving ones off at least!

 

history tells us that you have to kill the #2 leader of the roaches. and then kill his replacement. and then kill that replacement, and so on and so  on and so on.