Anyone else getting concerned about parts of the 'pen?

[Oz27]

I'll probably get roasted for this, because for a couple of months the 'pen has been our strength. But there's been issues lately. Clearly Smith and Street are two of the better relievers in the game, but I'm feeling that we're looking a bit thin beyond that. Grilli has well and truly found the form that made the Pirates do whatever it took to get rid of him, Jepsen has looked ordinary for a couple of weeks now, Thatcher still sucks and could well be left off the postseason roster (unless Grilli's stink gets so bad that he has to be left off), Salas has seemingly reverted to the mediocre pitcher he was before that dominant run and Rasmus may have to start in the playoffs at this rate. All of that leaves us rather thin in middle relief. Morin is still solid and even though Jepsen hasn't been as good as he was earlier in the season, I still have some faith.

 

But I can't be the only one a bit concerned about the bridge to Smith and Street, right?

[DoubleOffTheWall]

I am very concerned as well, especiallu with Jepsen.

IMO the formula is our starters ideally go six and Jepsen, smith and street close it out, but if Jepsen is floundering, that wont work.

I am less concerned with Grilli and Salas, as I see them as the guys who would come in if the starter cant go six, and there are some other options such as santiago out the pen, Rasmus (if he doenst start), and Morin.

[seenoevil]

No concerns with the BP. We have the best BP in the league. I'm more concern with SP depth

[tennischmp]

I'm always concerned about Jepsen

[DoubleOffTheWall]

No concerns with the BP. We have the best BP in the league. I'm more concern with SP depth

Yup, that too. We were so dominant this year but the state of the staff just doesnt inspire confidence going in

[dimitrig]

No concerns with the BP. We have the best BP in the league. I'm more concern with SP depth

 

Yes, was very concerned with the pen in April. Not so much now. However, they can't pitch 6 innings per game!

[SoCALkid]

I'm always concerned about Jepsen

End thread.

[Glen]

Grilli is looking pretty bad now, and Jepsen is showing a few cracks.  As others have speculated, perhaps it's the wear and tear - I can't recall a period where the pen has been used more than in the last month or so.  It could just be fatigue, and that's a bit worrisome.  I'll wait to see how the rest of the regular season goes before I start looking for the panic button.

[Oz27]

For a bit of perspective on the bullpen's performance this month.

 

Sep 20 - 2 innings, 2 ER

Sep 19 - 8 innings, 5 ER

Sep 18 - 4.2 innings, 3 ER

Sep 17 - 2 innings, 0 ER

Sep 16 - 5 innings, 13 ER

Sep 15 - 1.1 innings, 0 ER

Sep 14 - 7 innings, 3 ER

Sep 13 - 2 innings, 1 ER

Sep 12 - 4 innings, 0 ER

Sep 11 - 5.2 innings, 2 ER

Sep 10 - 2.1 innings, 0 ER

Sep 9 - 4 innings, 2 ER

Sep 8 - 3 innings, 0 ER

Sep 7 - 2.2 inning, 1 ER

Sep 6 - 7.1 innings, 3 ER

Sep 5 - 6 innings, 3 ER

Sep 4 - 4 innings, 0 ER

Sep 3 - 2 innings, 2 ER

Sep 2 - 5.2 innings, 1 ER

 

That's good for a 4.69 bullpen ERA for the month. Two things are clear from looking at that...it's a hell of a lot of innings (nearly 80 in less than a month) but there's also been a clear slide in performance from the start of the month to the end of it, even if you look at the blowout the other night as an outlier. Now I'm not for a second saying it's time to panic or that the 'pen isn't a strength, but worsening overall results and the recent suckiness of certain pitchers perhaps suggests it may not be quite as dominant as July/August results suggested given that some of the guys who played a huge part in that success (Jepsen, Salas and Grilli) seem to have lost some or all of it.

[wopphil]

Jepsen, Grilli and Salas have all pitched very poorly lately. And yes, that should be cause for concern, as we must have those guys pitching well if we are going to make a serious playoff run.

[Inside Pitch]

I'll probably get roasted for this, because for a couple of months the 'pen has been our strength. But there's been issues lately. Clearly Smith and Street are two of the better relievers in the game, but I'm feeling that we're looking a bit thin beyond that. Grilli has well and truly found the form that made the Pirates do whatever it took to get rid of him, Jepsen has looked ordinary for a couple of weeks now, Thatcher still sucks and could well be left off the postseason roster (unless Grilli's stink gets so bad that he has to be left off), Salas has seemingly reverted to the mediocre pitcher he was before that dominant run and Rasmus may have to start in the playoffs at this rate. All of that leaves us rather thin in middle relief. Morin is still solid and even though Jepsen hasn't been as good as he was earlier in the season, I still have some faith.

 

But I can't be the only one a bit concerned about the bridge to Smith and Street, right?

 

Crazy as this sounds, they may be too rested...   They were getting some heavy usage for a long time and over the last week the "A" team bullpen guys haven't been getting used as often.

 

Smith has 1.1 IP the last 7 days.  Grilli, 1.0 IP, Morin 1.2 IP, Jeppy 1.0 IP, Salas 1.1 IP.   IMO, it's a blip and more than likely you see a return to normal usage this week.  With all the post-season off days they will be able to get extra rest.

[stormngt]

Mm aye those three need some extended rest.

yes we should be concerned that the bullpen has been over worked and not as effective.

however we should be concerned that our offense could slump in October

just like we should be concerned with the thar our starters may not do the job.

it's the playoffs. We could kick ass. We could slump. That is why it is a cap shoot. One bad week and it's long vacation to March.

For a bit of perspective on the bullpen's performance this month.

Sep 20 - 2 innings, 2 ER

Sep 19 - 8 innings, 5 ER

Sep 18 - 4.2 innings, 3 ER

Sep 17 - 2 innings, 0 ER

Sep 16 - 5 innings, 13 ER

Sep 15 - 1.1 innings, 0 ER

Sep 14 - 7 innings, 3 ER

Sep 13 - 2 innings, 1 ER

Sep 12 - 4 innings, 0 ER

Sep 11 - 5.2 innings, 2 ER

Sep 10 - 2.1 innings, 0 ER

Sep 9 - 4 innings, 2 ER

Sep 8 - 3 innings, 0 ER

Sep 7 - 2.2 inning, 1 ER

Sep 6 - 7.1 innings, 3 ER

Sep 5 - 6 innings, 3 ER

Sep 4 - 4 innings, 0 ER

Sep 3 - 2 innings, 2 ER

Sep 2 - 5.2 innings, 1 ER

That's good for a 4.69 bullpen ERA for the month. Two things are clear from looking at that...it's a hell of a lot of innings (nearly 80 in less than a month) but there's also been a clear slide in performance from the start of the month to the end of it, even if you look at the blowout the other night as an outlier. Now I'm not for a second saying it's time to panic or that the 'pen isn't a strength, but worsening overall results and the recent suckiness of certain pitchers perhaps suggests it may not be quite as dominant as July/August results suggested given that some of the guys who played a huge part in that success (Jepsen, Salas and Grilli) seem to have lost some or all of it.

[Angel Oracle]

Pitching like this from the pen would = ALDS exit assuredly.

[tomsred]

Pitching like this from the pen would = ALDS exit assuredly.

 

Okay, then it happens.  There is no way to restructure the pen now, and therefore no need to worry about it.  Unless an injury occurs, the pen for the post season is likely to be:  Street, Smith, Jepsen, Salas, Rasmus, Grilli, and Morin with Santiago as a swing man.  Weaver, Wilson and Shoemaker (hopefully) as he starters.  If one more arm is added then it subtracts from the position player roster or replaces Shoemaker.  The position reserves are likely to be (if Hamilton is out).....Cowgill, Cron, McDonald, Navarro, Beckham and Boesch.  If Hamilton is in subtract Boesch.

 

Anything can happen in the playoffs, no matter who you are playing. You play to have a chance, that's all you get, a chance.

[LAAMike]

I do  not think that McDonald will make the postseason rosters.

[laagamer]

Nothing we can do about it.

 

Let's hope they find themselves by the time playoffs role around. 

[Angel Oracle]

No doubt anything can happen, I just hope it's working in October.

[Docwaukee]

They have almost 50% more inning in september than the middle of the pack.  Most relievers earned runs come in chunks and I think the recent outings from Grilli, Salas and Jepsen put their overall numbers closer to what I think they should be relative to talent.  Not sure it means they are going to continue to struggle.  It could, but I am not sure you can change anything anyway.  Street and Smith are your 8th and 9th inning guys.  The rest of the guys are subject to matchup.  Bear in mind that in the playoffs, every pitcher will be on a relatively short leash.  So Salas isn't going to get a chance to give up 5 runs.  

Thatcher should be nowhere near the post season roster though.  

[Inside Pitch]

They have almost 50% more inning in september than the middle of the pack.  Most relievers earned runs come in chunks and I think the recent outings from Grilli, Salas and Jepsen put their overall numbers closer to what I think they should be relative to talent.  Not sure it means they are going to continue to struggle.  It could, but I am not sure you can change anything anyway.  Street and Smith are your 8th and 9th inning guys.  The rest of the guys are subject to matchup.  Bear in mind that in the playoffs, every pitcher will be on a relatively short leash.  So Salas isn't going to get a chance to give up 5 runs.  

Thatcher should be nowhere near the post season roster though.  

 

I can imagine that Thatcher would get a spot over anyone, not with how he's pitched.  Pretty much every RHer on the roster has done a better job facing LHBs..   At this point, LeBlanc might be the best choice as a lefty.  Diaz has Ked 4 of the 9 LHBs he's faced..    Even that guy and his potential to walk 8 in a row might be a better option than Thatcher.

Edited September 21, 2014 by Inside Pitch

[SoCALkid]

I do  not think that McDonald will make the postseason rosters.

Without his bat we wouldn't even be in the playoffs.

[DoubleOffTheWall]

Yup

[Oz27]

Maybe Street should be added to the list of concerns when you look at this stat line since August 17 - 12.1 IP, 19 H, 3 BB (a 1.78 WHIP). Only 5 ER, which is a 3.71 ERA, but giving up that many hits in just 14 appearances really isn't good.

[Blarg]

Maybe we should worry less about extreme small sample sizes.

[Hollyw00d]

With bullpens, you're always dealing with small sample sizes.

[70runner]

Playoffs:  yet another small sample size