The Cubs grounds crew was short staffed because the Cubs were trying to avoid Obamacare

[Stradling]

Thats nice, im betting most of your employees are salaried or somehow not tied to the issue then if thats the case. or you happen to be lucky enough to work for someone who isnt taking advantage of the issue

How is a company that is doing these things not benefiting? they are no longer incurring those costs, no longer have to staff insurance departments, no longer have to deal with it in payroll.. there are numerous ways these companies are benefiting.

The one thing you miss is that the real decision the business has to make is whether it cares more about profits, then the people making them for them. It isd thier prerogative to chose the profits, but if they make that choice the people working for them can also choose to not be as loyal, work as hard, or go the extra mile since the company isnt willing to do the same.

A lot of companies today seem to forget who it is that put them where they are. You cant choose profit margin and stock prices over the people and expect those people to give a damn about the company. You are correct though, it is the companies right to do so, but if you go down that road you need to be realistic about it and not expect those people to give you what they did before you screwed them over.

Of our 18,000 employees I would say perhaps 15,000 or so are hourly. And to answer your question about how the business is not benefiting from it is the costs would go somewhere else, or they take on the extra cost they would have to raise prices, which very easily could mean that customers would either go somewhere else or do without their services. You do understand that if you hire a bunch of people to work that you have to spend a TON of money on training them and getting them up to speed. We don't disagree about Obamacare, I just think you are making the businesses out to be the bad guy if they choose to find more effective ways of dealing with a government that is overtaxing businesses almost as bad as they are overtaxing us. I am fortunate to work for a company that values its people. However, if people out there are working for a company that doesn't, they can always put themselves in a better position by changing companies, or acquiring the skills necessary to become more valuable to their employer. When push comes to shove the employees that work hardest, or add more value to a company are the ones that are taken care of, at least more times than not.

[Adam]

More profits = more growth = more jobs

[Tank]

More profits = more growth = more jobs

 

i always knew you were a trickle down economics kind of guy.

[Adam]

Every company I've ever worked for, and every client I've ever had...

 

This is how it works in my small sample size of experience. 

[floplag]

Every company I've ever worked for, and every client I've ever had...

 

This is how it works in my small sample size of experience. 

only it doesnt.. the last part kinda gets forgotten, lol

[Adam]

In business, there's no middle ground. You're either growing or dying. To make more money, you need more customers and customers to spend more. To facilitate that, you need more people and people to do more.

 

To assume that companies increase profits without growth and simply pocket those additional revenues is generally non-sense. 

[floplag]

Of our 18,000 employees I would say perhaps 15,000 or so are hourly. And to answer your question about how the business is not benefiting from it is the costs would go somewhere else, or they take on the extra cost they would have to raise prices, which very easily could mean that customers would either go somewhere else or do without their services. You do understand that if you hire a bunch of people to work that you have to spend a TON of money on training them and getting them up to speed. We don't disagree about Obamacare, I just think you are making the businesses out to be the bad guy if they choose to find more effective ways of dealing with a government that is overtaxing businesses almost as bad as they are overtaxing us. I am fortunate to work for a company that values its people. However, if people out there are working for a company that doesn't, they can always put themselves in a better position by changing companies, or acquiring the skills necessary to become more valuable to their employer. When push comes to shove the employees that work hardest, or add more value to a company are the ones that are taken care of, at least more times than not.

 

The businesses ARE the bad guy if they choose these methods.  You are welcome to disagree with me, no problem there, but you seem to find no fault in biusinesses using these tactics, i find it deplorable when those same bussiness increase expectations after cutting them down.

Your argument regarding just changing jobs etc would be fine, if that were the facts of the economy today, it isnt.  bussinesses are doing this cause they know they can get away with it due to lack of options in many places.   and acquiring skills costs money and time, something most people dont have when working to make ends meet.

You speak like a true republican in these views... but trickle down has been disproved so many times it isnt even worth discussing any further.

 

[Adam]

Why should a business pay a worker X, if they're willing to work for Y?

[Stradling]

The businesses ARE the bad guy if they choose these methods. You are welcome to disagree with me, no problem there, but you seem to find no fault in biusinesses using these tactics, i find it deplorable when those same bussiness increase expectations after cutting them down.

Your argument regarding just changing jobs etc would be fine, if that were the facts of the economy today, it isnt. bussinesses are doing this cause they know they can get away with it due to lack of options in many places. and acquiring skills costs money and time, something most people dont have when working to make ends meet.

You speak like a true republican in these views... but trickle down has been disproved so many times it isnt even worth discussing any further.

A couple of things here. First you act like all these businesses are running this huge profit margin to where they can just take on the extra health care costs for their part time employees that get 30+ hours a week. It isn't a company's responsibility to do that. It's an individual responsibility to be worthy of being full time. Second would you be ok paying extra for everything to cover the extra cost.

[Adam]

i always knew you were a trickle down economics kind of guy.

That isn't exactly trickle down economics. And nothing works when cronyism is so prevalent

[floplag]

Why should a business pay a worker X, if they're willing to work for Y?

 

you assume them willing, as opposed to simply not having a choice.

with employment being what its been in recent years, i think thats a failed assumption.

[floplag]

A couple of things here. First you act like all these businesses are running this huge profit margin to where they can just take on the extra health care costs for their part time employees that get 30+ hours a week. It isn't a company's responsibility to do that. It's an individual responsibility to be worthy of being full time. Second would you be ok paying extra for everything to cover the extra cost.

 

being worthy?  thats laughable, none of these businesses see anyone as worthy, thats the point.  whether they are or not kinda doesnt matter.

why do you think they all supported this dumb law

[Adam]

you assume them willing, as opposed to simply not having a choice.

with employment being what its been in recent years, i think thats a failed assumption.

 

There is always a choice. That no one is willing to make one is why the "bad" businesses can continue to "screw" people over

[mtangelsfan]

being worthy?  thats laughable, none of these businesses see anyone as worthy, thats the point.  whether they are or not kinda doesnt matter.

why do you think they all supported this dumb law

 

I'm guessing you've never run a business.  It isn't nearly as black and white as you are making it out to be.  What you seem not to recongnize is that most businesses are run by employees.  Many times employees who have started somewhere lower in the company.  Of course people see other people as worthy, it is a complete joke to say otherwise. 

 

For instance, a company's sales have gone down because of new competition.  Fixed costs being what they are, does the business try to cut all employees pay or do they lay off a few employees in order to keep the remaining employees paid well? 

[Adam]

I think there is this presumption that all businesses are AIG and/or Enron. 

[mtangelsfan]

and that they are each run by one evil despot.

[Stradling]

Guys help me out and this is a serious question, were most businesses in favor of the ACA? I thought it was universally hated from corporations. But to be fair I paid more attention to my company's opinion, which was against it from the get go. I find it incredibly hard to believe that corporate America wanted this law passed, like Flop says.

[floplag]

I'm guessing you've never run a business.  It isn't nearly as black and white as you are making it out to be.  What you seem not to recongnize is that most businesses are run by employees.  Many times employees who have started somewhere lower in the company.  Of course people see other people as worthy, it is a complete joke to say otherwise. 

 

For instance, a company's sales have gone down because of new competition.  Fixed costs being what they are, does the business try to cut all employees pay or do they lay off a few employees in order to keep the remaining employees paid well? 

 

you assume incorrectly, nuff said.

 

[floplag]

Guys help me out and this is a serious question, were most businesses in favor of the ACA? I thought it was universally hated from corporations. But to be fair I paid more attention to my company's opinion, which was against it from the get go. I find it incredibly hard to believe that corporate America wanted this law passed, like Flop says.

Every one i know was and was planning for whats happening now as soon as it was conceived.. you don't think this passed due to people asking their representation as opposed to corporate lobby do you?

If so that would be the first law to have done so in that manner since forever.

[mtangelsfan]

So you have run a business and you are saying you didn't value your employees?

[floplag]

So you have run a business and you are saying you didn't value your employees?

gee i dont know mt, which could i possibly be saying based on this thread...   i wonder.

[mtangelsfan]

all the complaints from you about how people are mean and you are the one being douchy right now. 

 

So, if you cared/care about your employees which would you do per my scenario, keep them all or let a few go?  BTW, whatever that decision is would be received by the employees as mean.

[Jay]

I'm guessing the Cubs ground crew consists of one full-time guy who really knows his shit and a team of other guys who work a few hours a day during baseball season, and get to watch the games for free.

[Stradling]

Ok, is there someone other than flop that wants to answer my question? I'd like to know if I'm wrong on this.

[floplag]

all the complaints from you about how people are mean and you are the one being douchy right now. 

 

So, if you cared/care about your employees which would you do per my scenario, keep them all or let a few go?  BTW, whatever that decision is would be received by the employees as mean.

Houston, we have a reading comprehension problem

if thats what you got from what i said.... have fun with it i guess