The Process of JeDi Leadership

[YouthofToday]

You lost me at 'mythical triple crown' lol

I like Dipoto and I have no problem extending his contract. He's made a few bad and questionable moves but that's to be expected. It goes with the territory of a GM.

Not shocking re: your first paragraph.

Agree with your 2nd.

Good article to lead this thread.

[nate]

Wait until after the season.  If the Angels do not go deep in the playoffs then he should not be retained.  The Street trade was incredibly short sighted.

[Stradling]

Nate will you still feel this way if Street pitches well and signs an extension and the prospects don't amount to much? I understand that prospects are organizational currency, but I'm guessing if Dipoto was offered more for those four players he would have pulled the trigger. Prospects do have an expiration date as we've all seen.

[laagamer]

We have the 2nd best record in baseball.

 

Firing your GM doesn't make much sense at this point. 

 

At least to me. 

[laagamer]

Wait until after the season.  If the Angels do not go deep in the playoffs then he should not be retained.  The Street trade was incredibly short sighted.

 

Sounds like someone who won't be happy no matter what Dipoto does...

[nate]

Nate will you still feel this way if Street pitches well and signs an extension and the prospects don't amount to much? I understand that prospects are organizational currency, but I'm guessing if Dipoto was offered more for those four players he would have pulled the trigger. Prospects do have an expiration date as we've all seen.

 

If the Angels retained Street for an additional three years I would feel much better about the trade.  Also depends on how much they pay him.

[jshep]

I don't think anyone expects Street to NOT pitch well.

 

And I don't think any extension they may or may not sign him to should enter into the evaluation of the trade. They traded for 1 and a half years of him. If they keep him longer, okay, but that's separate from the trade.

[Stradling]

I don't think anyone expects Street to NOT pitch well.

And I don't think any extension they may or may not sign him to should enter into the evaluation of the trade. They traded for 1 and a half years of him. If they keep him longer, okay, but that's separate from the trade.

So if we re-signed Greinke you would have felt the same way? If you do that's fine, but I doubt anyone else on here feels that way. I kinda think that sometimes teams trade for players to get them in the system to work on a contract extension rather than take their chances at free agency.

[nate]

If it is a team friendly contract, sure.  I supposed the difference is with Greinke it was unreasonable to ever believe he would stay with the Angels.  His contract was going to be huge.

[Stradling]

If it is a team friendly contract, sure. I supposed the difference is with Greinke it was unreasonable to ever believe he would stay with the Angels. His contract was going to be huge.

Remember before we traded for him there were concerns about how he would do with pressure of pitching in a big name city because of his anxiety disorder? I thought this was the perfect place for him because even though we are a big market club, it isn't like LA, Chicago and especially like NY. Jerry rolled the dice and it didn't work out.

[Angelsjunky]

Good article, GregAlso. I also prefer wRC+ but OPS+ is just fine.

 

DocHalo expressed most of what I was thinking. I get that you want Dipoto to be extended, or at least his options picked up, so that he'll think of the long-term as well as short, but on the other hand as a professional he should be thinking of the long-term regardless and not leave a glaring mess for the next guy to pick up. I personally wouldn't consider extending him until we see how he plans on guiding the team through the next couple years. The team is configured to win now, or over the next two years or so. I'd like to see Jerry's game plan for beyond that before giving him a contract.

 

On the other hand, if the Angels win the World Series this will be a moot point. Arte will give him his contract because all Arte wants is a World Series and, of course, to make money.

 

As for the Street trade, which others have brought up in this thread, while I also agree that it was short-sighted, one other benefit comes to mind. With RJ Alvarez traded, Cam Bedrosian is likely the closer of the future. He's got the stuff, he's got the talent and even the lineage. What he needs is a couple years of apprenticeship - like F-Rod had with Percival, like Percival had with Smith. With Street he can get that, especially next year when they'll both be in the bullpen for the whole season (hopefully). Even if Street is extended for a few years beyond 2015, Cam becomes a high leverage guy who will still eventually inherit the closer job at the age of 26 or 27.

[ten ocho recon scout]

If it is a team friendly contract, sure. I supposed the difference is with Greinke it was unreasonable to ever believe he would stay with the Angels. His contract was going to be huge.

Grienke would have stayed. He just wanted the most money. At that point, financially we were in a good spot, but the dodgers had only just recently their new ownership on place. Its not like at the time ot would have been known they were going to lockdown their own media deal and go crazy spending wise.

Its aalso a question of could we have matched but arte wanted hamilton more?

[Taylor]

No thanks on the extension.

 

Translation: I'm still butthurt that we traded a dude who had no home runs in high-A ball.

Edited August 4, 2014 by Taylor

[nate]

Grienke would have stayed. He just wanted the most money. At that point, financially we were in a good spot, but the dodgers had only just recently their new ownership on place. Its not like at the time ot would have been known they were going to lockdown their own media deal and go crazy spending wise.

Its aalso a question of could we have matched but arte wanted hamilton more?

 

I doubt the Angels were ever that willing to go over $100mm for him.  I could be wrong.

[ten ocho recon scout]

I doubt the Angels were ever that willing to go over $100mm for him. I could be wrong.

From what ive been told they were, it was only after they realized the dogs were going to match any offer (within reason) from the competition that we moved towards hamilton (and didnt sign anibal sanchez, who I really wanted)

[Angelsjunky]

Let's use our 20-20 hindsight vision on the choice of Hamilton over Greinke (so far):

 

Greinke (6 years, $147 million, age 29-34)

50 games started, 27-10, 2.64 ERA, 317 IP, 75 walks, 301 strikeouts, 5.7 fWAR

 

Hamilton (5 years, $125 million, age 32-36)

211 games, .260/.322/.434, 28 HR, 3.2 fWAR

 

Now understand that pitchers generally contribute less fWAR to a team - I think for starters the ration is something like 70-80% of what a position player produces. Even before adjusting for that, Greinke has almost double the production as Hamilton.

 

Verdict: Angels big-time butthurt

[jshep]

Even at the time, spending big on Hamilton and going cheap on pitching given the team's needs was odd.

 

And yeahhh, that decision isn't exactly looking better now.

Edited August 4, 2014 by jshep

[Blarg]

Using hindsight but also bring in the current state of the team at the time they looked at Grienke for once every five games or Trout, Pujols and Hamilton every game and felt run production for the other pitchers held more value.

Now, as soon as the Pujols and Hamilton they purchased play at that level for an entire season the choice is a no brainer.

Edited August 4, 2014 by Eric Notti

[Docwaukee]

We were never going to get Greinke.  He was going to the highest bidder, and the Dodgers were is full on insane mode. 

 

Let's use our 20-20 hindsight vision on the choice of Hamilton over Greinke (so far):

 

Greinke (6 years, $147 million, age 29-34)

50 games started, 27-10, 2.64 ERA, 317 IP, 75 walks, 301 strikeouts, 5.7 fWAR

 

Hamilton (5 years, $125 million, age 32-36)

211 games, .260/.322/.434, 28 HR, 3.2 fWAR

 

Now understand that pitchers generally contribute less fWAR to a team - I think for starters the ration is something like 70-80% of what a position player produces. Even before adjusting for that, Greinke has almost double the production as Hamilton.

 

Verdict: Angels big-time butthurt

 

Let's use our 20-20 hindsight vision on the choice of Hamilton over Greinke (so far):

 

Greinke (6 years, $147 million, age 29-34)

50 games started, 27-10, 2.64 ERA, 317 IP, 75 walks, 301 strikeouts, 5.7 fWAR

 

Hamilton (5 years, $125 million, age 32-36)

211 games, .260/.322/.434, 28 HR, 3.2 fWAR

 

Now understand that pitchers generally contribute less fWAR to a team - I think for starters the ration is something like 70-80% of what a position player produces. Even before adjusting for that, Greinke has almost double the production as Hamilton.

 

Verdict: Angels big-time butthurt

 

Anibal Sanchez (5/88, age 29-34yo seasons with a 16m option and 5m buyout) 

49 Starts.  3.06 era.  9.7 fWAR

 

We weren't getting Greinke just like we weren't getting Tanaka.  Not sure we had a chance at Sanchez either considering that Detroit swooped in to match and offer from the cubs. 

 

It's not like all three guys are just sitting in front of you and you just make your pick.  In general, position players seem the safer bet because of their everyday contribution.  Hamilton had red flags, but it was impossible to anticipate what happened

 

Also, you can't just compare player to player.  It would have been Greinke and Morales instead of Hamilton and Vargas.  Which makes it a little more reasonable. 

[Tyler]

Translation: I'm still butthurt that we traded a dude who had no home runs in high-A ball.

More like, I'm still butthurt we traded a SP package for a closer. Im worried about the 3 through 5 guys in our rotation.

[Angel Oracle]

Hamilton' big 2 months slump in 2012 plus his very poor finish to the 2012 season could have been the warning signs needed to avoid that signing.

Whether coincidence or not, sure enough, that end of 2012 season performance continued on and on here.

[Angel Oracle]

More like, I'm still butthurt we traded a SP package for a closer. Im worried about the 3 through 5 guys in our rotation.

Agreed that starting pitching depth is very sparse above low/high-A levels. 

But Elliot Morris was not really close to being able to pitch up here yet.   It didn't hurt us for this season or even next season, just down the road potentially. 

[Taylor]

More like, I'm still butthurt we traded a SP package for a closer. Im worried about the 3 through 5 guys in our rotation.

 

Which SP do you think we could have gotten for that package?

[Tyler]

Which SP do you think we could have gotten for that package?

If I give names you'll just dismiss them, so I dont see a point, given that my alternative to moving that package for a SP would have been to stand pat.

Edited August 4, 2014 by Shane

[oater]

The Angels are winning, and I don't see any reason why Arte Moreno would not exercise his option to retain DiPoto next year.  But what purpose would be served to "extend" DiPoto's contract now?  At best, DiPoto's record as a player evaluator is mixed.  Seemingly, his sabermetrics convinced him it was ok to essentially give away Santana because Joe Blanton was better (or at least a little bit cheaper).  And while I agree with many of the trades he has made, he has without question "sold the farm" to put together the present team.  A decision about extending DiPoto is better deferred to a later time, IMO.