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Angels Official Website: New draftees lead Angels' Top 20 Prospects list


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While I like much of what you say here, Scotty, it seems that you're missing or ignoring the fact that you follow the Angels much more closely than you do other teams (as far as I can tell). I imagine that you can name over a hundred minor leaguers in the Angels org, yes? How many minor league Brewers or White Sox or Marlins can you name?

 

The point being, from an "insider" point of view, the farm system always seems better than it actually is, or how it looks from an unbiased outside perspective. A player like Jose Rondon is a classic example because while he's a solid prospect, he looks better from the inside than from the outside.

 

Also, just to nitpick, neither Green nor Cowgill are from the Angels farm. Cowgill was already an established major league bench player when he came over to the Angels, and Green was on the verge.

 

Also, don't forget that every farm system produces Matt Shoemakers and Efren Navarros. These guys aren't on prospect lists, because prospect lists - as you say - tend to emphasize talent above the norm.

 

 

I love the irony of you ridiculing ridiculous comments and then make that ridiculous Lindsey comment. I suppose I should be calling you out for it? Of course maybe you are just being clever? The jury is out on that one.

 

I agree, the farm used to be pretty damn good - but it has gotten worse and worse over the last five years or so - which was masked by the drafting of Trout. I think the tipping point was the infamous 2010 draft in which the Angels had five first round draft picks and spent them on Cowart, Bedrosian, Clarke, Lindsey, and Bolden. Only Bolden and Clarke are duds so far, but Cowart and Bedrosian have been disappointing (although Cam is showing potential). Anyhow, it was a lot of missed opportunity.

 

Since Trout graduated a few years ago, the farm system has been particularly bad, although of course with a few strong graduates - Richards and Calhoun in particular. But here's the problem: what about the last 2-3 years? The trend is not good, and we still haven't seen that blossoming of a new generation of talent that we've hoped to see.

 

Anyhow, as I said before, the point for me is not to choose between being either a diehard homer or a grumpy failo. Diehard homers tend to take a biased view and see what they want to see, even apologizing for management no matter what they do. Extreme failos will bitch and whine about everything and miss the big picture, even miss the team kicking ass like they've been doing - I'm not advocating that, either. I'm advocating for a balanced perspective in which both sides are seen, in which one is aware of one's bias and doesn't let it blind them to the problems and issues with the team, but also that one's complaining and criticisms are moderated by looking at the big picture.

 

But it bothers me that whenever someone criticizes the team in any way there's a moderator gang-bang of ridicule. OK, it doesn't always happen in an extreme way, but it does seem that more often than not, any kind of negative comment, even if is pretty mild, is greeted with instant snide commentary from multiple moderators.

 

 

Dude - you're not gonna have any friends on the playground

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I do pay the closest attention to the Angels, but undoubtedly when you spend as much time following prospects as I do, you gain at least a basic knowledge of just about every team's system. As far as the most in depth though, I would say I know the Angels, Padres and Cubs.

Sure there's a difference between their top 5 and ours. It's evens out by the time you hit 20-30 and after that is where the Angels show their strength. The guys that don't show up because they don't have their status, of that are so far under the radar nobody ranks them, those are the guys the Angels have that make the major leagues.

Do you think those guys commonly make it in other systems? No , and the reason why is because the Angels have quality depth.

Think of it like this, you want to have 100 dollars. The flashy way to do is to pull out a Benjamin or a couple of fifties. The most common way is having a mix of twenties, tens and fives. The way the Angels are doing it are with a bunch of smaller bills.

That 20 dollar prospect is nice and shiny and gets all sorts of attention, but it's no different than having a collection of four five dollar prospects. In fact, when you have multiple holes to fill or need depth, those 5 dollar prospects can be a hell of a lot more useful than the 20.

Why play the Astros/Cubs game and lose baseball games and gain high draft picks? The Angels would lose that game every time because we will never pick as high as they do. Instead we pile up the quality college players with lower ceilings but higher floors. That's our game and as everyone can see, it's working. It fits what the Angels need and can do.

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Yep, our weak farm system has been that way for years. Amazingly, it supplied half our current roster. If acknowledging that makes me a homer, I don't care. I'd much rather be a homer for the team I've all my life than endlessly bitch and moan and every trade, FA signing, managerial/GM move, at bat...

For those that make ridiculous comments you can rest assured that they'll be called out on it.

One site prospect expert stated that all 4 players we traded would be at least average major leaguers.I think that's ridiculous.

Take a look at our roster and tell me how many of those players you would have pegged to be here 3 years ago. I'll take Street every day of the week.

btw, Lindsey is

2-25 since the trade

 

I am only quoting this because it is the most Lou has put into a single post in years. I mean, it took me almost a full minute to read and that was simply because I was savoring the moment.

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aj-ridicule all you want for my Lindsey comment. Just remember 2 things:

1. I won't care and I certainly won't whine and cry about how I'm getting picked on. In fact, I'll probably laugh.

2.My comment was factual

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"Take a look at our roster and tell me how many of those players you would have pegged to be here 3 years ago."

Also, care to comment on this? This is what I said about the trade. We have no idea who will be on the roster in 3 years so I'm not going to worry about it. You can fret all you want. I'll enjoy having Street and not worry about some prospects that weren't going to help us for a few years- if at all

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I think you are making a pretty big strawman here AJ.  You and phil seem to want to continue the meme that aw drives positive threads.  You fail to seperate a moderator voicing their own opinion versus trying to keep the site clean.

 

Here is the difference, if your post/thread gets edited or deleted, then the moderators are acting like moderators.  If your post/thread gets criticized, people might actually just disagree with your opinion.

I know that is hard for some of you to digest, but it is true.

 

OK, good point - I'll keep that in mind.

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aj-ridicule all you want for my Lindsey comment. Just remember 2 things:

1. I won't care and I certainly won't whine and cry about how I'm getting picked on. In fact, I'll probably laugh.

2.My comment was factual

 

Yeah, but it has no bearing on whether the trade was a good one or not. Absolutely none. It is clear that the trade helps the Angels in the short term, but it also seems likely that it won't look so good in the future. Maybe a bird in hand (Street) is better than four in the push (prospects), but applying that strategy over and over again tends to have a deleterious effect on a franchise.

 

By the way, are you implying that I'm whining and crying about getting picked on? If so, first of all I didn't know I was getting picked on - I haven't seen it.

 

"Take a look at our roster and tell me how many of those players you would have pegged to be here 3 years ago."

Also, care to comment on this? This is what I said about the trade. We have no idea who will be on the roster in 3 years so I'm not going to worry about it. You can fret all you want. I'll enjoy having Street and not worry about some prospects that weren't going to help us for a few years- if at all

 

Hey, I was one of Kole Calhoun's first fans when "some people" were writing him off as not having the tools to make it to the majors.

 

I hear your point, though. We have no idea who will be on the Angels in three years - other than Trout, Pujols, Hamilton, and probably Richards and Calhoun. Most people didn't think Calhoun would be a major leaguer, while Ryan Bolden and Chevy Clarke were the first round, toolsy outfielders and both are total busts. Baseball is tricky like that.

 

But the thing is, Lou, while I appreciate your attitude as a fan - and to be honest, I'm not fretting about the trade anymore and am almost as sanguine about the team as you are - I'm glad you're not the GM. A GM has to think of the big picture, of the present season but also the future. Historically teams that trade away their prospects and rely on free agency have a short shelf life. Most, if not all, of the perennially most successful franchises--in terms of year-in, year-out contention--have strong farm systems that they use to build the core of their team. The Angels HAD such a farm system a few years ago, which is one of the reasons why they're a good team today. But in recent years, since Reagins took over basically, they've changed from the conservative Stoneman attitude that built the strong 2004-09 teams, to a more Steinbrenner/Angelos approach of using prospects and trading chips for veterans and relying on free agency to fill holes. This is what I would call a non-sustainable approach - it is like paying for this year with next year's salary.

 

The Street trade is an interesting one, because it so clearly improves the team in the short-term, this year and next. But the price was--relative to the Angels farm system--enormous. The Angels traded away the possible best replacements for Kendrick and Aybar, their possible future closer, and starting pitching depth. Now if Street helps the Angels win a World Series it is hard to say it wasn't worth it. But if they don't win this year or next, and one of those three turn out to be a star, it is going to look bad in retrospect. I appreciate the fact that Dipoto is ballsy and willing to take risks. And, in the end, here we are 22 games above .500 in July. I just hope that Dipoto finds a way to build a sustainable powerhouse, rather than just a narrow window of opportunity before Pujols needs a wheelchair.

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To clarify, I wasn't saying you were whining and crying.I was referring to those who do complain about it.

Guess what? I'm not the GM but I also don't pretend to be. Nor do I harbor any illusion that I would be better at it than JD. Same goes for managing better than MS.

I'm also glad nobody here is the GM - without exception.

btw, I also wanted Kole to start, which is another reason why I was happy Petey was sent packing. Those of us who didn't care that he was traded were met with responses of how we traded away a GG, All-Star CFer.

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To clarify, I wasn't saying you were whining and crying.I was referring to those who do complain about it.

Guess what? I'm not the GM but I also don't pretend to be. Nor do I harbor any illusion that I would be better at it than JD. Same goes for managing better than MS.

I'm also glad nobody here is the GM - without exception.

btw, I also wanted Kole to start, which is another reason why I was happy Petey was sent packing. Those of us who didn't care that he was traded were met with responses of how we traded away a GG, All-Star CFer.

By about 10% of the posters, the rest of us just felt that Petey and Grichuk were too much to give away for Freese and Salas.  I wish we didn't overstate each others' point of views so often. 

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I really don't understand how anybody looks at our minor league system with anything other than serious concern. When your #5 prospect has an OPS of .615 in his second go at AA (coming off a mammoth .580 last year) and your top three are all 2014 draftees, something is seriously wrong. The system was in a bad state when it still had Grichuk, Lindsey, Alvarez, Rondon, Borenstein and so on...now it's seriously sad. I'm sure there'll be some useful players come out of it (like every minor league system ever) but you're burying your head in the sand if you think the state of our farm won't be detrimental to our ability to win, both from restricting the amount of young, cost-controlled quality talent we'll have on the roster in future years and by stopping us from doing much buying in the trade market for some time to come.

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People have been saying the same thing for almost 5 years now.  Funny how the team is winning anyways.

For most of that time the team hasn't been winning. We have zero playoff appearances in that window and have been a combined 43 games out of first place. Hopefully that's about to change, but I don't really see how you can use one probable playoff season to dismiss any concerns.

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