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Chuck

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I still think the depth of this rotation is the team's biggest weakness, however I do feel that Wade Leblanc has been sold short by most here. Is he good? Of course not, but he's pitched over 400 innings in the majors to a 4.51 ERA, which is not good, but not horrible either. Having him as the 8th guy on the depth chart is really not that bad. Worst case scenario is he sees 3-4 starts in 2014. That's not enough to have a serious impact on the team one way or another.

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I think you bring up a very good point T-Dawg in that LeBlanc is currently sitting pretty deep on the depth chart and isn't a complete dumpster fire.  There's a fluid competition in AAA between Shoemaker, Alvarez, LeBlanc and likely Roth (if he's not down in AA).  Whichever pitcher happens to be throwing the ball the best would serve as the 6th man in the rotation should the need arise.  

 

And I'd argue that such a need won't arise or be a focal point.  We have three young starters with fresh arms and two veterans who can be counted on for 200 innings a year.  Weav's injury last season was more of the fluke variety and while those may pop up, you can't plan for them.  

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The article is way too wildly optimistic about our depth options.

1. You never have too much pitching. Ever.

2. Quality depth is still a problem.

^^^This^^^....we need a quality young guy at AAA ready to bust through if somebody goes down...Shoemaker is ok, maybe a surprise...maybe Alvarez....but you really need an Adenhart 2009 or Weaver 2006...young guy really ready to bust through...
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There's no stud waiting to get his call but I think you could mix and match the Shoemaker, Alverez, and LeBlanc trio to get 10-12 decent starts if one of the staring 5 go to the DL. The current situation is preferable to committing a ML roster spot to Capuano or Maholm,

Edited by arch stanton
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The article is way too wildly optimistic about our depth options.

1. You never have too much pitching. Ever.

2. Quality depth is still a problem.

 

Agree. Even though we have some young guys in the wings we could still use another arm or 2

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Of course it would be nice to have an Adenhart or Weaver type waiting in the minors, just waiting for their chance, but that just isn't realistic. If there were more of those guys waiting in the wings for all the teams out there then guys like Scott Feldman wouldn't get 3 years and $30 million. Hell, we praise the A's constantly for their ability to bring up pitching year after year, but even they gave Scott F'ing Kazmir two years and $22 million. Also, if there were that kind of depth of pitching in the minors across the board then there would be 32 teams instead of 30, which just makes scheduling really stupid.

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Oakland, Boston, Texas and StL disagree with this post.

 

 

Well, sort of....

 

Oakland is using Jesse Chavez in the rotation -- that's how much their depth has been tapped.  Sonny Gray was their guy in the minors last year but he's their opening day guy this year.   AAA has Bruce Billings which is essentially their version of Matt Shoemaker and AA had Zach Neal, Murphy Smith and Sean Murphy, none of which were particularly impressive, 24/25 year olds with K rates below 6 or a WHIP above 1.35.  Their best option might be Josh Lindblom who they acquired with Gentry from Texas but he's been awful as a starter in MLB.  

 

Texas has completely obliterated their pitching depth.  CJ Edwards was moved for Garza, Robbie Erlin is in the rotation for SD, and Josh Lindblom was sent to Oakland.  Brad Mills is in Milwaukee so Ryan Feierabrend is their best returning AAA pitcher from 2013 -- he's 28 and has a K rate below 6.0.   AA was no better last year.  Neil Ramirez was easily their best performing SP prospect, he went to Chicago along with CJ Edwards.  Their next best performing pitcher was 23 year old Carlos Pimentel but they let him leave as a minor league FA, so he's a Cub too.  Cody Buckel completely imploded which is why Nick Martinez is in their rotation after all of 30 innings in AA.   I really like Martinez but if the Angels young guys are untested then WTF is Martinez?   They do have some guys that look pretty good in A ball -- but not sure a MLB team can rely on A ball pitchers, lord knows Angels fans would scoff at the Angels doing just that.

 

Texas' depth was overrated and is being exposed.  They had nothing in the system when Soto went down so they had to sign Chris Snyder.  To get Choice they had to move Gentry and Lindblom, but then they lose Engle Beltre for a while and have nothing ready for his spot either save for Aducci.  Profar goes down and they have nothing ready there either so they are scouring the waiver wires looking for a starting 2B -- Leury Garcia may have filled in there but he's on the White Sox.  Odor might just be their best option but he's had all of 134 at bats above A ball, and they are probably smart not to rush him.   They also better hope the other Beltre aka, "the good Beltre" doesn't get hurt because Mike Olt is the starting 3B for the Cubs -- another Garza trade casualty.  

 

Beyond Odor they have a group of talented position players who are likely headed to HIGH A, most of which resemble Dallas McPhereson or Brandon Wood.   Lewis Brinson hit 21 HRs in Low A -- he also K'd 191 times in 447 at bats.   Joey Gallo smashed 38 HRs as a 19 year old, but also struck out 165 times in 392 at bats.  Their newest "next Pudge", Jorge Alfaro, K'd 111 times in 372 at bats -- only Alfaro managed a batting average above .250.  Most people will tell you those guys are all high reward types -- but man are they high risk.  They could all flame out and it would surprise absolutely nobody.

 

The Angels have no farm system no depth, no future at all according to some but they likely have Taylor Lindsey, CJ Cron, Matt Long, Matt Shoemaker and Jose Alvarez likely in AAA.  AA could end up with Zach Borenstein, Eric Stamets, Alex Yarborough, Matt Sappington, RJ ALvarez, and Mike Morin - it would be nice if Snyder can build on what he did last year giving the Angels a second corner IFer behind Cron in AA.  Mike Roth is still around too.

 

They might not be high reward guys -- but those high floors could come in pretty handy during a MLB season.

Edited by Inside Pitch
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Except Oakland was a playoff team the last couple years because of all the pitching depth they had.

 

Boston had the best pitching in baseball last season largely in part to their depth in the farm.

 

The Rangers made it to two World Series thanks to amazing pitching depth.

 

StL much the same.

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Except Oakland was a playoff team the last couple years because of all the pitching depth they had.

 

Boston had the best pitching in baseball last season largely in part to their depth in the farm.

 

The Rangers made it to two World Series thanks to amazing pitching depth.

 

StL much the same.

 

So, how will their past depth help them now?   How has our depth between 2004 and 2009 helps us recently?

 

Maybe I don't understand what the point of your previous post was -- if all you were saying is that depth helped them win, thats fine..   Depth has helped every team ever win.  And if having the best pitching in MLB means ranking 14th in ERA then Boston surely did.   

Edited by Inside Pitch
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the collection of arms in the system that are candidates to make starts this year has vastly improved over the previous year.  

 

the two depth guys from last year were actually pretty reasonable (Richards and Williams).  Probably higher end than the current 6th and 7th starters.  

 

last year's problem wasn't depth as much as it was talent and injury.  There isn't more than 3-4 teams in major league baseball that could get 60 starts outside of their top five and survive to make the playoffs.  

 

This year's rotation has much more talent and upside.  So losing one of them would be that much more problematic due to the significant drop off to the next level.  

 

They have made tremendous strides to improve the depth at the major league level.  The lack of depth now is in the upper minors.  While Alvarez, Shoemaker and Leblanc are likely to be serviceable, there is really only one other player in all of the upper minors who has upside and could contribute at the major league level in sappington.  And that is still a significant maybe.  

 

So now, my concern isn't as much capable depth at the major league level for this year, but depth of talent for two years from now.  

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Well, sort of....

 

Oakland is using Jesse Chavez in the rotation -- that's how much their depth has been tapped.  Sonny Gray was their guy in the minors last year but he's their opening day guy this year.   AAA has Bruce Billings which is essentially their version of Matt Shoemaker and AA had Zach Neal, Murphy Smith and Sean Murphy, none of which were particularly impressive, 24/25 year olds with K rates below 6 or a WHIP above 1.35.  Their best option might be Josh Lindblom who they acquired with Gentry from Texas but he's been awful as a starter in MLB.  

 

Texas has completely obliterated their pitching depth.  CJ Edwards was moved for Garza, Robbie Erlin is in the rotation for SD, and Josh Lindblom was sent to Oakland.  Brad Mills is in Milwaukee so Ryan Feierabrend is their best returning AAA pitcher from 2013 -- he's 28 and has a K rate below 6.0.   AA was no better last year.  Neil Ramirez was easily their best performing SP prospect, he went to Chicago along with CJ Edwards.  Their next best performing pitcher was 23 year old Carlos Pimentel but they let him leave as a minor league FA, so he's a Cub too.  Cody Buckel completely imploded which is why Nick Martinez is in their rotation after all of 30 innings in AA.   I really like Martinez but if the Angels young guys are untested then WTF is Martinez?   They do have some guys that look pretty good in A ball -- but not sure a MLB team can rely on A ball pitchers, lord knows Angels fans would scoff at the Angels doing just that.

 

Texas' depth was overrated and is being exposed.  They had nothing in the system when Soto went down so they had to sign Chris Snyder.  To get Choice they had to move Gentry and Lindblom, but then they lose Engle Beltre for a while and have nothing ready for his spot either save for Aducci.  Profar goes down and they have nothing ready there either so they are scouring the waiver wires looking for a starting 2B -- Leury Garcia may have filled in there but he's on the White Sox.  Odor might just be their best option but he's had all of 134 at bats above A ball, and they are probably smart not to rush him.   They also better hope the other Beltre aka, "the good Beltre" doesn't get hurt because Mike Olt is the starting 3B for the Cubs -- another Garza trade casualty.  

 

Beyond Odor they have a group of talented position players who are likely headed to HIGH A, most of which resemble Dallas McPhereson or Brandon Wood.   Lewis Brinson hit 21 HRs in Low A -- he also K'd 191 times in 447 at bats.   Joey Gallo smashed 38 HRs as a 19 year old, but also struck out 165 times in 392 at bats.  Their newest "next Pudge", Jorge Alfaro, K'd 111 times in 372 at bats -- only Alfaro managed a batting average above .250.  Most people will tell you those guys are all high reward types -- but man are they high risk.  They could all flame out and it would surprise absolutely nobody.

 

The Angels have no farm system no depth, no future at all according to some but they likely have Taylor Lindsey, CJ Cron, Matt Long, Matt Shoemaker and Jose Alvarez likely in AAA.  AA could end up with Zach Borenstein, Eric Stamets, Alex Yarborough, Matt Sappington, RJ ALvarez, and Mike Morin - it would be nice if Snyder can build on what he did last year giving the Angels a second corner IFer behind Cron in AA.  Mike Roth is still around too.

 

They might not be high reward guys -- but those high floors could come in pretty handy during a MLB season.

There's really no such thing as depth in terms of injury insurance and mitigating the effects of those injuries. No team in MLB calls up minor league players at will to contribute in any significant way. Every now and then you'll get a minor league player who can serve as an adequate, temporary replacement.

 

Furthermore, a lot of those pitchers you listed wouldn't have succeeded in Texas. They were merely trade bait. 

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Where did I say I was talking about now.  The OP's post insinuates that pitching depth isn't as important as we think.  My point is that some of the most successful teams lately would disagree.

 

You didn't actually read the article the OP linked to did you?   At no point does the OP "insinuate" pitching depth isn't as important as we think.  The article argues that despite what's being said about the Angels lack of depth there are pitchers in place who could fill a need.  It has everything to do with the Angels, THIS year, and what he believes is the misconception of a lack of depth.

 

So, instead of asking me where you said now, how about you actually read what you claim you are responding to?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Inside Pitch
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Went to a minor league game in Sacramento last summer. (the River Cats (Oak AAA) have a nicer stadium than their big league club)

Saw a kid named Sonny Gray pitch that day.

Granted we have not had the same success with young pitchers as Oak and a few other teams have had, but Sonny Gray was solid for them in the playoffs last season, and (due to some injuries, granted) is going to be the opening day pitcher for Oak this season.

 

Shit happens. I am glad we held on to the 1st round draft pick, and with a better scouting system in place, it could happen to the Angels too.

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