Jump to content
  • Welcome to AngelsWin.com

    AngelsWin.com - THE Internet Home for Angels fans! Unraveling Angels Baseball ... One Thread at a Time.

    Register today to join the most interactive online Angels community on the net!

    Once you're a member you'll see less advertisements. Become a Premium member and you won't see any ads! 

     

IGNORED

Best Player of This Generation


stormngt

Recommended Posts

Today while watching ESPN the commentator said Derek Jeter was the best player of his generation. I then got into a debate with my son. I argue Pojols was the best player of that generation. Yes I know hasn't dominated with the Angels. But 8th you compare to the totality of his career. Wouldn't have to go to Pujols?

I wonder what the board thinks?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

That's hard to say. First, we have to figure out what Jeter's generation is. I think Pujols would fit with that generation, even though he was six years behind Jeter's debut. But is Bonds part of that generation too? Is Griffey? Is Cabrera?

The second part is more complicated. Do you go on overall offensive numbers? Peak numbers? Cumulative stats? How much do you factor in rings or the position(s) played by someone?

One can make a pretty compelling case for Jeter based on the 3,000+ hits, 5 rings, and playing SS (a more demanding spot than 1st or corner OF) his whole career. One can also make a good case for Pujols based upon the 500 HRs, the ridiculous peak years, and his two rings. Bonds, if he's considered part of the generation, has a damned good case too, given his video game peak and career stats, despite a lack of rings. I think you could toss Biggio in there on the fringe of this argument too because of the career numbers, a very good peak, and how good of a defender he was at three positions, two of which (catcher and 2nd) are pretty demanding.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't know who fits in what generation, but I'm amazed by the fact that Jeter will most likely end up with the 6th most hits in major league baseball history... more than a lot of great players.  I think I've under-rated him for his career because of my disdain for the Yankees. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Pujols has a higher career BA. OBS. OPS. and OPS + than Arod. Only argument against Pujols is that Jeter and Arod has done it six mores. Who knows how Pujols drops with another six year decline.

 

To be fair, one of those guys was a 1B (for the most part) and two of them are SS (and 3B in A-Rod's case even though he was a better SS than Jeter). 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

That's hard to say. First, we have to figure out what Jeter's generation is. I think Pujols would fit with that generation, even though he was six years behind Jeter's debut. But is Bonds part of that generation too? Is Griffey? Is Cabrera?

The second part is more complicated. Do you go on overall offensive numbers? Peak numbers? Cumulative stats? How much do you factor in rings or the position(s) played by someone?

One can make a pretty compelling case for Jeter based on the 3,000+ hits, 5 rings, and playing SS (a more demanding spot than 1st or corner OF) his whole career. One can also make a good case for Pujols based upon the 500 HRs, the ridiculous peak years, and his two rings. Bonds, if he's considered part of the generation, has a damned good case too, given his video game peak and career stats, despite a lack of rings. I think you could toss Biggio in there on the fringe of this argument too because of the career numbers, a very good peak, and how good of a defender he was at three positions, two of which (catcher and 2nd) are pretty demanding.

 

I didn't count Bonds as his generation, nor Griffey Jr. 

 

Maybe Chipper Jones?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It's hard comparing Pujols and Jeter because they were two different type of hitters.  Pujols definitely was a game changer with the power he brought, but Jeter racked up a ton of hits over his career.  He wasn't counted on as the run producer for his teams.  His job was to get on base for the guys like Pujols.  I think it's easy to underestimate how great Jeter was in the late 90's and 2000's.  He's had 200 hits in a season 8 times during his career.  Of course Ichiro had 10.  I would have loved to see what Ichiro could have done had he come to the US when he was younger.  It's amazing that he's put up 2800 hits and he didn't even start until he was 27 years old.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It's hard comparing Pujols and Jeter because they were two different type of hitters.  Pujols definitely was a game changer with the power he brought, but Jeter racked up a ton of hits over his career.  He wasn't counted on as the run producer for his teams.  His job was to get on base for the guys like Pujols.  I think it's easy to underestimate how great Jeter was in the late 90's and 2000's.  He's had 200 hits in a season 8 times during his career.  Of course Ichiro had 10.  I would have loved to see what Ichiro could have done had he come to the US when he was younger.  It's amazing that he's put up 2800 hits and he didn't even start until he was 27 years old.

If Ichiro had been signed by an American team out of high school, he might be challenging Pete Rose's record right about now. It's a shame we only caught the last half of his peak years. Just a freakishly talented athlete and a great hitter.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I didn't count Bonds as his generation, nor Griffey Jr. 

 

Maybe Chipper Jones?

Jones and Jeter are pretty close in terms of when their careers started and ended (Jones 95-2012), and Jones' career numbers are really good overall at a tough position.

Jones career:

.303/.401/.529

2,726 hits

468 HRs

150 SBs

I think Griffey (89-2010) needs to be considered part of "the generation" too. Him and Jeter were playing at the same time for 15 years. And 2,781 hits to go with 630 HRs is pretty impressive.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Here's where WAR is really useful. Derek Jeter has played from 1995 to 2014. Here are the fWAR leaders during that span of time (position players only):

 

111.3 Alex Rodriguez

99.1 Barry Bonds

89.1 Albert Pujols

84.7 Chipper Jones

74.3 Derek Jeter

 

So there you have it - according to fWAR, Jeter was the 5th best player during the 20 years he played. That isn't half-bad. Of course this method favors Jeter in that in includes his entire career, while other players played different spans of time (Bonds retired 7 years ago). But it gives us one perspective.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Pujols didn't debut until 2000.

so total war is unfair. Is there an average WAR?

Here's where WAR is really useful. Derek Jeter has played from 1995 to 2014. Here are the fWAR leaders during that span of time (position players only):

111.3 Alex Rodriguez

99.1 Barry Bonds

89.1 Albert Pujols

84.7 Chipper Jones

74.3 Derek Jeter

So there you have it - according to fWAR, Jeter was the 5th best player during the 20 years he played. That isn't half-bad. Of course this method favors Jeter in that in includes his entire career, while other players played different spans of time (Bonds retired 7 years ago). But it gives us one perspective.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...