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Interesting Replay Call in Oakland


nate

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I was watching that game at the time. Apparently after the replay result came back Melvin continued the game under protest. They never stated what rule he believed was misapplied though and they won so it was a moot point. 

Edited by ScottLux
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Wow, what a crazy unforseen disadvantage of replay. There really isn't a good way to call that. Players shouldn't have to look like idiots tagging everybody unnecessarily, but the umpires also can't assume the tag and double play would have ocurred. Really, the only fair thing would be to let the A's choose between the call on the field and the overturn, but that would be wacky as well.

That's why baseball is so amazing. Nobody saw this coming because you can't analyze every possible scenario on the field. Imagine if this was the walk-off run in a playoff game.

 

The ambiguity with the play at the plate gets much worse when you consider the new moronic plate blocking rules. The catcher is allowed to block the plate on force plays but not on tag plays. (I won't even get into the fact that each umpire has his own completely different definition of what constitutes a "clear lane" for the runner) 

 

In many cases it's almost impossible for the catcher to be in position to catch the ball cleanly without blocking the plate (eg throw is off line, or coming from foul territory). If it appears to be a force play initially the catcher may not be able to make the play on time and also allow a legal sliding lane in case it turns into a tag play on replay.

Edited by ScottLux
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This whole replay fiasco took close to ten minutes to sort out. They still got it wrong.

I don’t understand the confusion. It's quite clear the tag was applied before the throw to the plate. Once the tag was applied there is no force in play. Every runner ahead of the tagged runner must be tagged. It's really quite simple, little league 101. The umps got the original call wrong, it was challenged and overturned. If you want to blame someone, blame the catcher for not tagging the runner.  

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I don’t understand the confusion. It's quite clear the tag was applied before the throw to the plate. Once the tag was applied there is no force in play. Every runner ahead of the tagged runner must be tagged. It's really quite simple, little league 101. The umps got the original call wrong, it was challenged and overturned. If you want to blame someone, blame the catcher for not tagging the runner.  

The catcher has to go with the call the umpire makes on the field and in that case should have been looking to double up the runner going to first. The problem is with the first base umpire blowing the original call. Every play blown post the first play is based on those decisions.

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I would have loved to see a ruling on this protest. The A's clearly got screwed but I can't see any remedy. This is just one of those spots where's there's no right answer.

It was noted that Joe Maddon was telling all of his players in spring training to complete plays in case a replay changed the outcome, primarily scoring plays. They did drills but no telling if this were part of them because of the rarity that this would become an issue.

Crazy as it sounds it looks on close plays the assumption will have to be made that force is not in play and a tag will have to take place. I'm sure Machado will be cool with that.

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The catcher has to go with the call the umpire makes on the field and in that case should have been looking to double up the runner going to first. The problem is with the first base umpire blowing the original call. Every play blown post the first play is based on those decisions.

every overturned call results in an unanticipated outcome. Either you want replay to get the calls right or abandon it citing confusion on the field. You can't apply it randomly because the outcome is not to your liking.
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It was noted that Joe Maddon was telling all of his players in spring training to complete plays in case a replay changed the outcome, primarily scoring plays. They did drills but no telling if this were part of them because of the rarity that this would become an issue.

Crazy as it sounds it looks on close plays the assumption will have to be made that force is not in play and a tag will have to take place. I'm sure Machado will be cool with that.

 

This was a completely different situation though.  He was training his players to get the extra out if they could.  Hopefully we hear from MLB saying that it wasn't a play that could be challenged.

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I would have loved to see a ruling on this protest. The A's clearly got screwed but I can't see any remedy. This is just one of those spots where's there's no right answer.

 

Problem is the play as it went down didn't violate any rules. The rules are just bad. It's not like the case where Bo Porter used two pitchers without the first one facing a batter, which is patentyl against the rules. 

 

This was a completely different situation though.  He was training his players to get the extra out if they could.  Hopefully we hear from MLB saying that it wasn't a play that could be challenged.

Exactly. Going for a 5-4-3 double play with two outs instead of just a 5-4 putout is trivial.

 

If home plate is a tag play instead of the force though better course of action may well be to not make the play at the plate at all but instead go for the sure out at first -- especially now that tag plays require the catcher to be extra accommodating by allowing sliding lanes to the runner insetad of blocking the plate. 

 

Call on field should automatically stand / be non reviewable in situations where reversing a safe call on the field would cause a successful force out on a continuation play to be nullified.

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I would have loved to see a ruling on this protest. The A's clearly got screwed but I can't see any remedy. This is just one of those spots where's there's no right answer.

I appreciate what replay is intended to do - get the call right. And it almost always does. What I don't like is that replay removes the immediate finality of a call. As much as I used to complain, there was something kind of cool about feeling you got away with something. It kind of felt everything would even out in the end, too. But now there are real loopholes like this that either way you slice it, as Jeff said, there doesn't seem to be a right answer. One umpire's decision frames a player's decision a second later. Picture this play in the 9th inning of Game 7 and you have a winter's worth of anger.

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The catcher has to go with the call the umpire makes on the field and in that case should have been looking to double up the runner going to first. The problem is with the first base umpire blowing the original call. Every play blown post the first play is based on those decisions.

 Before this year and instant replay, I would consider all you say to be absolutely true and correct. However, this isn't last year. We have a NEW system in place. As baseball’s implementation of the replay continues, there will be many conversations and possibly a few rule changes to come if it is to survive. However, as it is at this moment, there was no other determination they could have come to other than the one they did. To say the umpire and or review crew got it wrong IS wrong. Moreover, unless baseball is willing to amend the current rules of baseball, that call will be made again. Like it or not, they made (with the rules in place today) the correct call.     

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