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fed judge rules no fly list unconstitutional


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""In a 65-page opinion issued Tuesday ... Brown ordered the government to come up with a new way for the 13 plaintiffs to contest their inclusion on the list that prohibits them from flying in or through U.S. airspace. The government must provide notice to the plaintiffs that they are on the roster and give the reasons for their inclusion, Brown wrote. She also ordered that the government allow the plaintiffs to submit evidence to refute the government's suspicions."

 

so if i understand this correctly, the gov't has been placing people on the no-fly list without notifying them or explaining their reasons? and people, once they found out, had no opportunity to contest it? 

 

oh boy.

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Call it a right, call it a privilege, this is something that can profoundly affect a person's life and I at least want to know who is making the decisions and why and under whose authority. The one thing that really bothers me is how clandestine our government wants to be about everything.

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Call it a right, call it a privilege, this is something that can profoundly affect a person's life and I at least want to know who is making the decisions and why and under whose authority. The one thing that really bothers me is how clandestine our government wants to be about everything.

Clandestine? You couldn't be more wrong.

Obama promised a transparent government.

Are you saying he lied?!!

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Call it a right, call it a privilege, this is something that can profoundly affect a person's life and I at least want to know who is making the decisions and why and under whose authority. The one thing that really bothers me is how clandestine our government wants to be about everything.

 

agreed. if you're on the list and you're an american, you should be notified and given some kind of hearing to address whatever issues landed you there.

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U.S citizens should be notified, but I don't believe they need recourse.  Flying isn't a right.

The reason recourse is necessary is that some people end up on the list by mistake. And it's extremely difficult to get off the list. There was a case several years back of some young child that somehow got on the list and the family didn't find out until they tried to fly with the child.

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Great, spend more money.  If they want to challenge they should have to pay the costs if they lose.

 

You are always arguing for protecting our privacy and due process.  Shouldn't Americans be allowed due process if they are placed on a list that restricts them from flying anywhere in the US?

 

We are given hearings if our drivers license is suspended.

 

I am all for Americans being notified and given due process.  On the other hand I could give two shits if a non American is inconvenienced or screwed by it.  The lists exist to protect the country.

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You are always arguing for protecting our privacy and due process.  Shouldn't Americans be allowed due process if they are placed on a list that restricts them from flying anywhere in the US?

 

We are given hearings if our drivers license is suspended.

 

I am all for Americans being notified and given due process.  On the other hand I could give two shits if a non American is inconvenienced or screwed by it.  The lists exist to protect the country.

 

I am when it is part of Constitutionally given rights.  I don't believe flying is though. 

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Great, spend more money.  If they want to challenge they should have to pay the costs if they lose.

 

You make it sound like these determination hearings are 100% accurate.  If you have the same name as a terrorist, and live in the same city or metropolitan area, it's going to be very difficult to clear your name.  I know people who have been through this before. 

 

What if a person is added by mistake -- because he/she has the same name -- and is denied travel for work, then subsequently fired from their job? 

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I am when it is part of Constitutionally given rights.  I don't believe flying is though.

It may not be a constitutional right, but it seems like there should be reasonable cause for restricting a person from flying. The system you're arguing for allows people to be placed on the list for no reason at all. Piss of your neighbor that works for DHS, and you can no longer fly because it's not a constitutional right?

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I am when it is part of Constitutionally given rights.  I don't believe flying is though. 

 

Neither is driving.  It could be argued that not being allowed to fly is an infringement on the pursuit of happiness.  Flying is definitely a liberty.

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