Ice melt in part of Antarctica 'appears unstoppable,' NASA says

[Tank]

I wonder why one faction thinks it's only man made while the other faction thinks it's only the natural cycles of the earth.

Why can't it be some of both?

[mtangelsfan]

I'm guessing most folks do think that, its just the degree that is questioned.

[nate]

Serious question, have they come up with solid evidence that climate change is casued by human development (industry etc.) or that the changes and laws they have proposed will make any difference?

 

There is very clear scientific evidence that the damage to the ozone has caused major weather anomalies as well as steady temp increase and environmental damage.

[mtangelsfan]

There is very clear scientific evidence that the damage to the ozone has caused major weather anomalies as well as steady temp increase and environmental damage.

 

understood, but what are the forces that are damaging the ozone?  Is all caused by man, some man some not?

 

Also, are the measures suggested going to make a difference?

[arch stanton]

We certainly do know that status quo is damaging the ozone. We can't know for sure if the measures suggested will help unless they get a chance. It makes sense to try methods based in science before pronouncing it out of our hands.

[nate]

understood, but what are the forces that are damaging the ozone?  Is all caused by man, some man some not?

 

Also, are the measures suggested going to make a difference?

 

We know that man is, so why aren't we doing more?

 

The biggest problem is the petty arguing between the two parties and because Republicans became the anti global warming party.  Meanwhile Democrats only solution to every problem is more taxes.

 

Yep, I just answered my own question.

[Jay]

I wonder why one faction thinks it's only man made while the other faction thinks it's only the natural cycles of the earth.

Why can't it be some of both?

I think we all agree the cause is cow farts.

http://www.npr.org/blogs/thesalt/2014/04/11/301794415/gassy-cows-are-warming-the-planet-and-theyre-here-to-stay

[TobiasFunke]

MT and Jay are just pissed they can't use Aquanet aerosol cans on their hair anymore

[mtangelsfan]

MT and Jay are just pissed they can't use Aquanet aerosol cans on their hair anymore

 

No way dude, my hair is naturally curly.  Its the cheeze wiz I'm pissed about.

[TobiasFunke]

Maybe I should start a different thread about pollution, but how can people see video footage of places like China or trash dumping everywhere like in India and not want to have more strict pollution control? That should be no argument. Congressmen want to "ease restrictions on businesses" by pretty much letting them do whatever the hell they want. How can we not see that is a bad idea?

 

My dad told me back in the day it was so bad in California that you couldn't even see the San Gabriels because of the smog. I'm glad it's (semi) not like that anymore.

[mtangelsfan]

Maybe I should start a different thread about pollution, but how can people see video footage of places like China or trash dumping everywhere like in India and not want to have more strict pollution control? That should be no argument. Congressmen want to "ease restrictions on businesses" by pretty much letting them do whatever the hell they want. How can we not see that is a bad idea?

 

My dad told me back in the day it was so bad in California that you couldn't even see the San Gabriels because of the smog. I'm glad it's (semi) not like that anymore.

 

I think if you look at the state of California its a good picture of the issues we have.  Some government intervention has helped the air quality, but too much government intervention has made the state business unfriendly and it is one of the reasons California is having the issues it is today.  All I want to see is that each measure has true science and evidence of it working before it is enacted. 

[nate]

Honestly, in the US we have to find some way of compensating the companies that exist here and manufacture in a clean manner, which would be the requirement.  Otherwise they can just manufacture in China and pollute the hell out of the environment without any care and save tons of money.

 

I don't think the solution should ever be, let people pollute because its expensive not to.  It isn't just global warming.  Cancer rates, and the overall health of Americans is at risk.

[tdawg87]

Season over.

[Adam]

Aren't we past D-Day on this issue per the Kyoto deal? Shouldn't we just max out the credit cards at this point?

[RallyMo]

I think we all agree the cause is cow farts.

http://www.npr.org/blogs/thesalt/2014/04/11/301794415/gassy-cows-are-warming-the-planet-and-theyre-here-to-stay

 

...which are, the article points out, mostly due to humans.

[TobiasFunke]

He stopped reading after www.npr...

[TobiasFunke]

but too much government intervention has made the state business unfriendly

I don't buy this excuse because the state could say anything to a business and the business could label us "business unfriendly". If a business is in Washington and can pay 3% less in taxes in Idaho, technically Washington would be business unfriendly to said company. If a corporation just looks at the bottom line for their board members/stock holders, then I'm sorry for not jumping to their rescue.

[mtangelsfan]

I don't buy this excuse because the state could say anything to a business and the business could label us "business unfriendly". If a business is in Washington and can pay 3% less in taxes in Idaho, technically Washington would be business unfriendly to said company. If a corporation just looks at the bottom line for their board members/stock holders, then I'm sorry for not jumping to their rescue.

 

I guess if that was all California was doing you would be correct.  Whether you buy it or not, the fact is businesses are leaving the state.  The fact that you look at it as an excuse is telling.  Businesses have the right to operate where they wish.  They don't need excuses because doing what is best for the business isn't wrong. 

[Blarg]

...which are, the article points out, mostly due to humans.

There you go blaming fat people, again.

[TobiasFunke]

I guess if that was all California was doing you would be correct.  Whether you buy it or not, the fact is businesses are leaving the state.  The fact that you look at it as an excuse is telling.  Businesses have the right to operate where they wish.  They don't need excuses because doing what is best for the business isn't wrong. 

I agree with you 100%

 

That being said, I don't think that we should destroy the environment and fiscally bend over backwards for the businesses. There has got to be a happy medium but both sides (government and corporations) will never get there.

[mtangelsfan]

Agreed on both counts.

[nate]

Business is all about the bottom line.  Sometimes businesses get good press for being "green" or for good Samaritan type stuff but the increase in revenue is never enough to offset the costs of the improvements they made.

 

If it is cheaper to do business in China there is no reason they shouldn't.

 

For a business to ignore the bottom line and hurt their margins is suicide.  Another company will come around that doesn't and totally crush the one that does.

 

CA's taxes and regulations have absolutely pushed businesses away.  There is no reason to do business there when you can do it cheaper in another state.

[TobiasFunke]

 

CA's taxes and regulations have absolutely pushed businesses away.  There is no reason to do business there when you can do it cheaper in another state.

Businesses will go to any state that will give them the highest profit margin. And they will go to a country that beats out that American state in regards to profit margin. And they will go from one country to the next if the next country gives them a higher profit margin. Businesses don't care about America or Americans.

Edited May 15, 2014 by TobiasFunke

[nate]

Which is why I said our government has to find a way to compensate them for choosing to do business here.  They need incentives.

[TobiasFunke]

Nate, there is no way we can compete with China, India, Vietnam, Mexico, etc. etc. etc.