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Hector Santiago Panic/Apocalypse Thread


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I still like Santiago, but it looks like he is not quite ready for this level.  I hope he is allowed to improve at SLC instead of experiencing more failure.  The Angels need him to be the pitcher he can be, unfortunately the Angels need him to be something he may not be until next year.

 

Still need pitching.  Pitching.  How about some pitching?

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You do realize that the PCL is the most hitter friendly league in the minors right?

 

I'm looking at a 26/9 K/BB ratio more than anything. If he can give us more innings and keep us in games, I'm all for him in the rotation over Santiago. 

He's 27 years old and had 2 full year of AAA, if he's any good, they would brought him up long long time ago.........

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His peripherals at SLC are decent.  He could make a decent 5th starter is given the chance.  He's not a replacement for Santiago as much as he would be a spot holder.  Hector still has more upside, but he's clearly not in sync with his mechanics and/or what the halos have done with changing his approach to more fastballs/sinkers and less off speed. 

 

I say let Hector nibble and get thru 5 or 6 innings dancing around the zone mixing it up with his 7 pitches. 

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Raw era at SLC is not helpful.  Even though other era metrics have their issues, his FIP and SIERA have been very solid.  Granted, I doubt he throws out a 3.5era at the big league level, but something in the mid 4's would be a reasonable assumption and a decent stopgap while hector gets on track. 

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I say call up Shoemaker and let Santiago pitch out of the bullpen in order to work on his delivery and anything else that is bothering him. It worked for guys like Jerome Williams in the past. Why not see if it works for Santiago. No doubt he has talent and potential. But right now, he's hurting the Angels. 

 

As for Shoemaker, there are plenty of stories of guys at age 27 getting their crack in the Majors and making something of it. Ryan Vogelsong comes to mind. He didn't make it until age 33

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Shoemaker should be on the team already anyways. His numbers are decent, and he could potentially have a role on this team.

Send Frieri down.

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It's only horrible logic if you don't understand that some players are average. We live in a society where a player is either incredible or sucks. Even on our message board people think Aybar and Howie suck or last couple years people thought Callaspo sucks. I'm perfectly fine with having filler bodies on a team.

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Yea Doc I agree with that. Right now the only overpaid players that aren't producing on this team right now are Wells and Blanton. Our big money players are Pujols, Trout, Hamilton, Weaver and Wilson and they are all producing, well except for the injured Hamilton, and he was off to a decent start.

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This whole idea that Shoemaker will somehow be better in the majors than AAA because "his stuff doesn't play in SLC" is, frankly, ludicrous.

Newsflash, the hitters in the majors are much better than those at AAA, and that is a much more important factor than the ballpark.

Also, regarding the earlier comment about Shoemaker's career 4.50 ERA.... You know that's from exactly one game, right? Against Seattle. In Anaheim. In the last weekend of the season.

Matt Shoemaker may prove to be a serviceable major league swing man (Jerome Williams) but there's no way he'll be as good as Hector Santiago in the long run.

Santiago had two starts with a bad back. Of the four since, two were good, one was so-so and one was bad. If he goes all year pitching in that proportion, you know what that makes him? A damn good No 5 starter.

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Where do you guys get Shoemaker has a career 4.50 ERA from pitching in one game? To set the record straight, Shoemaker

had a 0.00 ERA in his start against Seattle and in three appearances in 2014, he has a 4.05 ERA. Career is 2.31 ERA not 4.50.

We all know Shoemaker is not a flame throwing ace but I think he is still the best option for long relief and spot

starting. I think he needs more than 11.2 innings to prove that he has that potential. Not a very large sample size but it is not like he got blown out in those innings. I think we would all take a 4.00-4.50 ERA from that position and be

content with it.

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When we obtained Santiago and Skaggs for Trumbo, I didn't have much faith that both would pan out.  It just seemed too good to be true.  I was hoping that maybe one of them would work out.  The fact that somehow both of them landed in our starting rotation speaks volumes about our pitching depth.  Now Santiago is a giant hole in the rotation and we're looking to fill it with Shoemaker?  That's the best we can do?

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I don't know if anyone is saying that Shoemaker is a permanent option for the #5 spot. For me, I think a stint in the bullpen helps the Angels and Santiago. Allows him to find his mechanics and work on his location in game situations more than just once a week, and it strengthens a weak Angels pen as it is obvious that Santiago shows flashes of solid pitching. If he finds his control, send Shoemaker back down (if he hasn't done anything of note during his stint) and put Santiago back in the rotation.

 

I don't understand how this is a ridiculous option.

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This whole idea that Shoemaker will somehow be better in the majors than AAA because "his stuff doesn't play in SLC" is, frankly, ludicrous.

Newsflash, the hitters in the majors are much better than those at AAA, and that is a much more important factor than the ballpark.

Also, regarding the earlier comment about Shoemaker's career 4.50 ERA.... You know that's from exactly one game, right? Against Seattle. In Anaheim. In the last weekend of the season.

Matt Shoemaker may prove to be a serviceable major league swing man (Jerome Williams) but there's no way he'll be as good as Hector Santiago in the long run.

Santiago had two starts with a bad back. Of the four since, two were good, one was so-so and one was bad. If he goes all year pitching in that proportion, you know what that makes him? A damn good No 5 starter.

 

I meant better than his SLC numbers as a whole.  He has a career 5.4 era there because of an entire season with an era in the high 5's.  I think last year's AAA season is more indicative of where he would be at the major league level if he were to pitch half of his games in Anaheim.  Somewhere in the range of the mid to high 4's.  Exactly as you have said.  A Jerome type with not much upside. 

 

Jeff - do you know of any talk about them trying to 'simplify' Santiago's approach?  He's throwing offspeed pitches less and the fastball/sinker more often.  It seems that he's been a bit predictable as a result. 

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That's because he is constantly behind in counts.

 

his ratio of being ahead in the count to behind or even is actually better this year than last.  He held batters to a sub .600ops last year when ahead yet this year, they have an ops of almost .800 when he's ahead. 

 

I honestly think he's pitching differently and it's making him predictable.  Even being ahead more this year than last, he still has a lower rate of off speed. 

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