Hector Santiago Panic/Apocalypse Thread

[Guest]

So, this isn't another hyperbolic "I hate [insert player] here." thread. Sorry to disappoint you.

 

Instead, I wanted to highlight the suggestion of sending Hector Santiago to the bullpen. I know this has been mentioned multiple times here, but I haven't read anything to convince me he'd be effective in the bullpen. 

 

I had high hopes for Hector this season, and I thought he'd be the star of our rotation–instead, he's displayed a profound inability to control the ball, a high BB/9 rate, too many hits/hrs, and low IP/9. He's really proficient at striking out guys when he doesn't struggle though, but I'm not seeing what makes him a better fit for the pen. I think he'd make the same mistakes if he were a reliever. 

 

The last thing our bullpen needs is another erratic arm; Hector has talent, no doubt, but he would benefit from some time in AAA. If anything, it'll build some confidence and give him some time to work on his mechanics.

 

Either way, he needs to develop some more, he's not ready to be a SP. Are the Angels looking for a SP to fill in if Hector goes to the pen/AAA?

 

We can't afford to keep losing every time this guy pitches.

Edited May 8, 2014 by falsestat

[Blarg]

So in 5 days who starts?

[Homebrewer]

This season is done. Let Santiago take his knocks every five days and learn. He'll be a crafty and grizzled vet by next year.

Edited May 8, 2014 by Homebrewer

[AngelsFaninGA]

So because there is no obvious replacement we should keep an 0-6 pitcher with an ERA well north of 5 in the rotation? That's the same logic that kept Blanton and Hanson in the rotation for months last year, and we saw how that turned out.

[AngelsFaninGA]

This season is done. Let Santiago take his knocks every five days and learn. He'll be a crafty and grizzled vet by next year.

Or, like Blanton and Hanson he'll be out of the league.

[fan_since79]

He'll be 1-12 when Jerry trades for a starter in the summer. By that time we'll be 10 games out.

[AngelsLakersFan]

His mechanics are a nightmare.

[fan_since79]

I wonder who he's going to get mad at tonight.

[Scott34]

Send Santiago to the pen and put Shoemaker in the rotation.

[tomsred]

Send Santiago to the pen and put Shoemaker in the rotation.

^ This.

[pgasca]

The Angels are 0-7 when Santiago starts and 16-10 with everyone else. At least give Shoemaker a shot he can't be any worse.

[Tyler]

He needs to be moved to the bullpen. 

[Butcher'd]

Scioscia will leave him in the rotation the rest of the year. The man is too stubborn to make a change in May

[Tank]

So in 5 days who starts?

 

livan hernandez.

[shizziejoe]

there HAS to be a change..this guy shouldn't be #3 on the rotation....it's time to move Richards up to #3 and let Shoemaker be the #5 with Santiago working as a long reliever

[Docwaukee]

If he's got a mechanical issue going on, then what good will moving him to the pen do? 

 

Guys in the pen couldn't cut it as a starter because they didn't have enough to get them thru the batting order 3 times because of a limited repertoire. 

 

Hector's issue is throwing quality strikes.  Not his complement of stuff. 

 

He's gonna have the same problems in the pen as he does in the rotation.  He can't throw the ball over the plate in the right spot.  Moving him to the pen is going to make it worse.

 

Case in point - Richards.  His mechanics were an issue.  Not his stuff.  Out of the pen, he was the same as when he was a starter.  He needed to refine his delivery. 

 

Hector doesn't have the same stuff, but he's got enough to be a #4 starter. 

 

If you are gonna make a move, put shoemaker in the rotation, but let Hector work it out in AAA. 

 

As an aside, they changed his mix of pitches this year from last.  He threw a much higher percentage of off speed last year and has been very sinker heavy this year.  A plus pitch for him last year has been below average for him this year.  His fastball is also getting hammered.  Probably because it's an average pitch and now hitters are expecting it.  They also ditched his slider completely and he's only thrown 9 screwballs all year.  Let the guy bring his full mix and let him go back to what he did last year.  Mix it up and keep guys off balance. 

[Jeff Fletcher]

Santiago is certainly in a rut now, but if you look at the back of his baseball card, he's started 30ish games in the big leagues with an ERA under 4.00.

Matt Shoemaker has a career ERA of about 4.80 in the minors.

(Guessing on all the numbers.)

[Guest]

I think the Halos have a shot this year, but I'm more interested in the team's future; which is why I'm concerned about Hector.

All these rough starts are going to destroy his confidence and don't want to see him become damaged goods. The team needs to protect its investment and let him develop his skills (and regain some confidence).

I don't think Shoemaker's a realistic solution.

He might work in a pinch, but he's not going to make a difference. This team needs another SP, regardless of Santiago's successes—because this team is one SP injury away from collapse.

The rotation is pretty solid, but it's an injury away from killing the entire season.

Edited May 8, 2014 by falsestat

[Guest]

If he's got a mechanical issue going on, then what good will moving him to the pen do?

That's precisely the point I was trying to make in my OP. People keep whining about sending him to the BP, but it won't make a difference with his faulty mechanics

He needs some work, but it'll be worth it in the end when we have a solid SP or BP arm.

[Docwaukee]

Santiago outpitched his peripherals last year so he was due for regression, but he was also in one of the most hitter friendly park in the game and now he's in a pitcher friendly one.  I really think they've messed with his head a bit by making him more reliant on his fastball.  I think the CWS threw him on the mound without much expectation and told him to do his thing.  Now he comes to the halos as a more 'established' guy.  I put that in quotes because he's really still quite young from a pitching development standpoint as a starter.  Still think they need to let him go back to his nibbly offspeed crafty approach instead of trying to make him something he's not. 

 

Shoemaker's minor league ERA is deceiving imo.  His stuff doesn't play well at all at SLC to the point that I think he'll be better in the majors than at SLC.  I don't mind giving him a shot at the rotation, but long term I still think Hector is going to be better. 

[Brent Maguire]

Sending Santiago to the PCL, a notorious hitters league, isn't going to help him much. 

 

I think you try to skip his next start when you can. Maybe a "phantom" DL trip for him could help. I don't think putting him in the pen really does much as others have said. He'll still struggle with his inconsistent mechanics and his bad command. 

[Guest]

I didn't want to bring this up, but I'm starting to think our coaches have a hand in this. I don't want to accuse Butcher for messing up Santiago specifically, but I'm not confident in his abilities to fix pitchers. It's telling that I'm more confident in AAA coaches helping Hector than Butcher.

When a guy like Hector has mechanic problems, I begin to wonder why he isn't learning/applying what his coaches are instructing him.

Edited May 8, 2014 by falsestat

[Sherlock31]

Do you people even know how Shoemaker is doing in AAA right now?

 

18.2 IP 26 hits 16 ER 1.821 Whip 7.71 ERA

 

Ok! it's the PCL, but that still not looks very good, I say keep Hector in the rotation and let him work it out, I watch every game he pitched, he actully didn't pitch that badly, just some bad luck with low run support and error, I think he'll be fine.

[ABC]

This season is done. Let Santiago take his knocks every five days and learn. He'll be a crafty and grizzled vet by next year.

 

Season done?

 

Failio

[Angelfish]

Trade him for Verlander. No one will be expecting it.