Orange County Register: Angels' young arms are pulling their weight

[AngelsWin.com]

ANAHEIM – When the season began, it was no stretch to suggest that the fortunes of the Angels would be largely shaped by the performance of three pitchers: Hector Santiago, Garrett Richards and Tyler Skaggs. They were each question marks – none...

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[Inside Pitch]

People will not like this article -- Richards and Skaggs both giving credit to Butcher, Richards praising Ianetta.   Heresy.

[Tyler]

I wish Santiago was 23.

[Inside Pitch]

I wish Santiago was 23.

 

LOL, that error bugged me more than it should have too.

[Brandon]

Bunch of malarkey. Butcher should only be mentioned when someone is doing bad.

[bloodbrother]

Thanks, Butcher!

[Redondo]

All I have ever read on AW is negative stuff about Butcher. Is this a fluff piece or for real?

[stevestevens]

Could you imagine how good these guys would be with a real pitching coach?

[DowningRules]

I like Butcher.  He seems like a nice guy.  And he appears to have a good relationship with Scioscia.  And the pitchers all seem to like him.  So that's all terrific and nice and good and fun.

 

You know what is not so terrific and nice and good and fun?  The Angels bullpen ramshackle bullpen over the last -- I've literally lost count -- four seasons?  Five seasons?  And the pen's pattern of implosion over April 2014.

 

I can't draw a direct correlation to Butcher.  But I also wouldn't rule it out.  There are other issues at hand, such as injuries, choice of draft picks, the dredging up of released pitchers who the Angels claim or sign for AAA.  We should also mention the coaches in the minors and the Angels' pitching development process.  It all needs to be deeply deconstructed and re-built, even if it's with the same coaches and staff.  Something is NOT working and we have seen it NOT work for years.

 

I hope these pitchers mentioned in the article are a sign that a corner is being turned.

[Jeff Fletcher]

I'll just say this: no one really can tell if a coach is good or bad without watching very closely behind the scenes and talking the players and other coaches privately. I'm not saying I know either. I know enough to make about a 30 percent judgment based on my time in the clubhouse. So much of what happens goes unseen even by the media who is there every day.

I find it interesting that, among a group that so often understands why things aren't simple when it comes to stats (more RBI = good player), there is still a knee jerk perception when it comes to a coach (pitchers don't perform = bad pitching coach).

All I've seen as evidence that Butcher isn't good is references to guys like Kazmir, Santana, Haren, walden, etc. There are a lot of other factors at play with any pitcher, too many to make assumptions based on a small sample size.

All I can tell you is this: I've asked several Angels pitchers who I have a good relationship with, privately (off the record), what they think of Butcher, and no one has said anything bad about him.

And, to reiterate on Skaggs, I did not ask him about Butcher. He brought him up unprompted.

[DowningRules]

That was a good and informative read, Jeff.  I had no idea that Santiago hurt his back on the return drive from Arizona.  I see Santiago as one of those dark horse's who will have a pivotal (to the team) second half.

[Make Angels Great Again]

Jeff, you're almost too damned smart to be on this board.

[Docwaukee]

Nice read Jeff.  

 

I think the fact that Butcher survived the coaching overhaul lends to the fact that the players like him and feel good about working with him.  It seems that he tends to have more of a positive effect on the younger players as opposed to the veterans.  Maybe that is off base.  

 

I wonder if anyone noticed that Walden's final numbers last year were very similar to how he was with us in 2012.  Just a down tic in walks.  

 

Jeff - do you know of any sort of plan as to how the team is going to handle the innings load for these you guys?  I just don't see them handling the pace they are on for the entire season.  Is that a 'we'll cross that bridge when the time comes' sort of thing?

[Tyler]

Butcher won alot of brownie points with me when he had to be restrained from smacking Blanton around.

 

It always comes down to the individual to grow his game, but I can't say that I haven't wanted a different voice for the pitchers. That's probably just the case from going from Bud Black to Mike Butcher. It's gonna sting some.

[Jeff Fletcher]

Nice read Jeff.

I think the fact that Butcher survived the coaching overhaul lends to the fact that the players like him and feel good about working with him. It seems that he tends to have more of a positive effect on the younger players as opposed to the veterans. Maybe that is off base.

I wonder if anyone noticed that Walden's final numbers last year were very similar to how he was with us in 2012. Just a down tic in walks.

Jeff - do you know of any sort of plan as to how the team is going to handle the innings load for these you guys? I just don't see them handling the pace they are on for the entire season. Is that a 'we'll cross that bridge when the time comes' sort of thing?

Richards and Santiago shouldn't have a problem because they've been around long enough. Skaggs is the only one who is maybe a concern and I don't think anyone expected that he'd pitch well enough to push a number he couldn't handle. If he keeps going like this, that will certainly be something to watch.

[Angel Oracle]

If Skaggs continues to stay around 95-100 pitches in his starts and still pitch between 6-7 innings on average, could he possibly get through into September at least?

[AngelsLakersFan]

Richards and Santiago shouldn't have a problem because they've been around long enough. Skaggs is the only one who is maybe a concern and I don't think anyone expected that he'd pitch well enough to push a number he couldn't handle. If he keeps going like this, that will certainly be something to watch.

 

At the rate he is going he's going to toss the easiest 200 innings in the history of the sport.

 

I'd like to see Scioscia stretch him out just a bit - push him to 115-120 pitches to complete game maybe, then go back to pulling him around 90 pitches after 7 or 8 strong innings. He's been so good with those pitch counts I think we might get lucky.

[tdawg87]

I love the reality check Fletch brings here on a regular basis. Hope he keeps posting.

Definitely keeps our rants in perspective when someone who actually has access to the inner-goings-on with this organization contributes to discussion.

The Skaggs comment the other day was pretty awesome.

Edited May 2, 2014 by tdawg87

[Brandon]

I think there are a lot of dudes here who have a rational and logical perspective, but no press pass.

That may have been the first anti knee jet post I've seen you make, tdawg.

[tdawg87]

Knee jet?

 

Also you obviously don't read my posts.

[HeavenlyHalos]

I'll just say this: no one really can tell if a coach is good or bad without watching very closely behind the scenes and talking the players and other coaches privately. I'm not saying I know either. I know enough to make about a 30 percent judgment based on my time in the clubhouse. So much of what happens goes unseen even by the media who is there every day.

I find it interesting that, among a group that so often understands why things aren't simple when it comes to stats (more RBI = good player), there is still a knee jerk perception when it comes to a coach (pitchers don't perform = bad pitching coach).

All I've seen as evidence that Butcher isn't good is references to guys like Kazmir, Santana, Haren, walden, etc. There are a lot of other factors at play with any pitcher, too many to make assumptions based on a small sample size.

All I can tell you is this: I've asked several Angels pitchers who I have a good relationship with, privately (off the record), what they think of Butcher, and no one has said anything bad about him.

And, to reiterate on Skaggs, I did not ask him about Butcher. He brought him up unprompted.

 

Interesting to hear this to say the least. Thank you for posting, however as a greedy man, and in the words of one Andy Dufrsene: "And if you've come this far, maybe you're willing to come a little further" and share with us players' thoughts on Scioscia. I understand if you wish not to.

[arch stanton]

Hector looks like he loses focus. Maybe a little Ritalin would help?