yo Jerry

[Docwaukee]

Am I the only one who thinks Salas has been serviceable.....besides that first game of the season he has been ok.  Sure he gave up the winning hit against the nats after frieri crapped the bed but is Salas really the guy we want in at that situation?  That is not his role.

 

And can we give up on the whole "we gave away talent" crap that we see in every thread.  PB's 2011 is looking more and more like a mirage and grichuk has done nothing to show that his OBP will translate to the big leagues.  I am not say that Salas is a keeper but I am not really seeing how the Cardinals won that trade in a landslide.  Freese has been putrid, PB has been horrible, Salas has an ERA in the 2.00's and has two wins, and Grichuk is has shown his whole MILB career that his OBP is driven by his average which is not a good sign for a swing and miss guy. Guys that are cheap and under club control aren't a great commodity if they are not producing.

 

I just find it funny that all of the sudden Grichuk is an amazing talent and "the real prize" just by spending three weeks with the Cardinals.  Time will tell if Grichuk pans out at all.  I am not seeing it.  I think he has a couple of ok years at the age of 27 and 28 after bouncing around for a while. 

To me, it's never been about who wins or loses a trade.  I don't really care how the guys do on the other team.  It's more about what the trade did to improve your team and whether it was a solid use of resources.  Bourjos had enough value to get a solid reliever.  Someone better than Salas.  Couple that with Grichuk, and that could have netted a high quality pen arm or even a closer. 

 

What's done is done though. 

 

As far as Salas, he's allowed 6 of 6 inherited runners to score and when he has done poorly, it's been in close games.  If they want to keep him as the guy who pitches in games with big leads or deficits, that is fine.  He shouldn't be anywhere near the game in the 7th or later when the game is within 2 runs either way. 

[AngelsAndRamsFan]

@JeffFletcherOCR: Also, don't be surprised if #Angels have another roster move for the bullpen tomorrow. Lotta work lately.

[stevestevens]

I agree with using Salas not being used in close games.

 

I just tend to think that people overvalue PB and Grichuk.  It seemed like Grichuk never got too much play around here and from the media until he was traded. 

[jshep]

@JeffFletcherOCR: Also, don't be surprised if #Angels have another roster move for the bullpen tomorrow. Lotta work lately.

 

Please let it be Yoslan Herrera sent back to whocaresville

Edited April 30, 2014 by jshep

[Docwaukee]

Please let it be Yoslan Herrera sent back to whocaresville

I am guessing it will be Maronde getting sent back and someone like Boshers being called up or maybe Alvarez will be back.  They really need someone to get lefties out.  Especially with the rangers and yanks coming. 

[Guest]

Please let it be Yoslan Herrera sent back to whocaresville

 

I am guessing it will be Maronde getting sent back and someone like Boshers being called up or maybe Alvarez will be back.  They really need someone to get lefties out.  Especially with the rangers and yanks coming. 

 

I've heard Jerry Dipoto reads these boards occasionally. He's going to immediately send Morin back just to troll with us.

[YouthofToday]

How many Rule 4 drafts has Dipoto lead? Two?

Reagins and his incompetence is still hurting this team. It takes time for draft prospects to filter through to the show. Not nearly enough time to blame Dipoto.

Least we forgot Dipoto inherited the worst farm system in baseball...

[ten ocho recon scout]

i agree that scioscia is terrible at bullpen management, but jerry is partly at fault, he traded talent away for salas, he wasted 7m on jerry blanton - money that could have been used on relief.

wasnt jerry blanton a lounge singer that low level mobsters used to dig on?

[Stradling]

Chuck, the bullpen needs to get everyone out every night they pitch.

In addition to throwing first pitch strikes each and every time.

[wopphil]

In addition to throwing first pitch strikes each and every time.

Come on guys, you are missing the point. Nobody expects that. But some of us are frustrated that we have what appear to be much better options wasting away in the minors, while this bullpen blows up every third night.

Rather than dismiss the points raised in this thread because you think they are overly critical, I'd like to hear the defense for having Herrera and Maronde on the roster over Bedeosian.

[arch stanton]

Because Maronde is the sole lefty and Herrera is basically a mop up man. Should you take your future closer directly out of A ball and let him wait 8 days between appearances in blowouts?

[eaterfan]

How many Rule 4 drafts has Dipoto lead? Two?

Reagins and his incompetence is still hurting this team. It takes time for draft prospects to filter through to the show. Not nearly enough time to blame Dipoto.

Least we forgot Dipoto inherited the worst farm system in baseball...

 

 

Agreed. The base of any successful bullpen is built from within. A lot of those guys happen to be failed starters who are turned into relievers. There hasn't even been enough time for the starters to fail yet let alone be converted into relievers. We have some guys in the minors and soon they may be coming up. 

 

Rebuilding the bullpen is a hard task and throwing money at it isn't an effective strategy. Most relievers have very short peaks which means by the time they hit FA they are already on the decline. Most pitch so few innings that it's a pretty small sample size so a few breaks here or there make a reliever look much better or worse so finding their true talent level is hard. Perhaps having a better pitching coach would help too, but that is a problem specific to the Angels and not a league wide issue with finding relievers.

 

I am actually pretty happy with the direction the pitching staff is headed in. I thought it would take many years to rebuild this staff but it's certainly headed the right way. We have 3 young starters who look like they will be sticking in the rotation for several years. It also appears that we have several young bullpen arms on the way in the next year. 

[Marsaka]

Totally agree, Doc.

Bedrock, Alvarez, Sisk and Morin are coming.. DDLR and Burnett are wildcards and if we get one of the two back, we'll be in good shape.

 

i agree bedrock, alvarez, sisk, and morin are coming soon.  its just right now the team isnt ready to win yet so they are holding them back.  i see the strategy now, the goal is to stay in 3rd place. got it.

[stevestevens]

If DLR comes back healthy and <gasp> Burnett does too then by June I think you will see something like this:

 

Smith

Kohn

DLR

Frieri

Salas/Jepsen

Maronde or Burnett

Morin/Bedrosian/Alvarez with these guys fluctuating between a 7-8 man bullpen

 

Maronde is going to be lucky because of his ability to throw the ball with his left arm.  If all three of the young guns show up and do well  then Salas most likely will head back down.

Edited April 30, 2014 by Stevestevens

[Mark68]

I don't think Jerry can properly construct a bullpen.  The bullpen has been an issue since he became the GM and he has done nothing to fix it.  Every year it's been bad. 

The bullpen has been a problem since well before Jerry. There are no easy fixes until the kids are ready.

[Mark68]

Because Maronde is the sole lefty and Herrera is basically a mop up man. Should you take your future closer directly out of A ball and let him wait 8 days between appearances in blowouts?

Or because Bedrosian was just in A-ball last year.

[nando714]

2 weeks ago I think we blow that game

Jeppy doesn't get a fly out or a k. He let's up a double. Jeppy was actually clutch

Yes I just said that

Baby steps

Edited April 30, 2014 by nando714

[jshep]

Do I think they should come up? Yeah of course, but I'm not surprised that they aren't since they were both in A ball last year and we're only a month into the season. Very few GMs will be that aggressive with kids. Placing the blame solely on Jerry is so short sighted. DDLR got injured, Frieri turned to shit and Burnett may as well be dead. Jerry had a tiny budget to do what he did with the pitching and get Trout extended.

The only way to get Scioscia to stop using his toys is to fire or release guys, it's been that way with every GM preceding Jerry. The biggest problem is standing on the dugout steps.

 

Well since you suggested I read this post...

 

-DDLR got injured. Yes, that was unexpected. I'll give you that, although there are many less surprising things in this game than pitchers getting hurt.

 

-Frieri turned to shit. Yes he did. That's also a thing he's already done multiple times prior to this season. He's just not incredibly reliable over the course of a full season. So not really surprising that he did this. Only unfortunate he did it this early.

 

- You're right, Burnett might as well be dead. And Dipoto should have been building this bullpen on the assumption that Burnett wasn't going to give us anything this year. I'm not going to give him a pass for the bullpen's struggles based on the fact that Burnett has yet to take the mound for us.

 

And again, Jerry has given Scioscia every single one of his toys. EVERY. SINGLE. ONE. He also has the option of taking away those toys if he's unhappy with how they're being used.

 

So maybe we should stop referring to them as Scioscia's toys and start referring to them as Scioscia AND Jerry's toys.

 

If Dipoto didn't believe Yoslan Herrera was worth anything, he wouldn't be here for Scioscia to use.

If Dipoto didn't think Nick Maronde was a major league contributor right now, he wouldn't be here for Scioscia to use.

If Dipoto didn't think any one of Kevin Jepsen, Fernando Salas, Josh Wall etc etc etc was worth their time, they wouldn't be here for Scioscia to use.

[Stradling]

I think it's as simple as the value Alvarez and Bedrosian a lot and worry more about their development than they worry about games in April. They were in A ball last season. As far as Morin goes I think they are waiting until there is a less pressured situation for his debut, once again for his development. We as fans want instant gratification, they have to worry about the path it takes to make special players successful for the long haul. You can say Frieri has shown himself to be ineffective in the past, well so is every closer in baseball. Frieri saved 90% of his games last year, just a hunch but that probably puts him in the top half of the league. Considering we obsess over these things because we are fanatics the reality is a lot better than the perception. Even Herrera went into last nights game with a 1.5 ERA. I personally don't think Herrera should be on the team, but if it were up to me I would send him down and call up Grant Green. As far as referring to Herrera or Wall as Scioscia's toys, that's just being lazy because you don't like Scioscia. The only thing I would have done differently last night if I was Mike would be to bring Kohn back out for the 7th, but I don't know if he pitched the day before. Bottom line is lately the bullpen has been better and he's already made the change in the closers role.

[Homebrewer]

i'm not really joining the discussion in any capacity other than to say, the bullpen is an annual turnover event. any team could entirely overhaul virtually their entire bullpen any given year if they wanted to. good, even great, bullpen guys are a dime a dozen. you can piece meal it together from seemingly inconsequential minor league trades and veteran bp guys that are on upswings. you just have to be adept at recognizing them.

^^this^^

 

Scioscia, Dipoto, and even Reagins have been blamed and vilified here for the pitching woes of the past 4-5 seasons...

But no mention of the guy who is the supposed "expert" in judging the talent and effectiveness of the pitching staff?

 

Scioscia and Dipoto need another go-to guy, and the bull-pen pitchers need some help/advice they aren't getting.

Since the org seems hell bent on keeping Butchy for some inconceivable reason...hire a bullpen coach.

Watching these pen guys come in and walk batters after a good outing by the starters is painful and sickening.

 

FREE BUTCHY!!!

[jshep]

I think it's as simple as the value Alvarez and Bedrosian a lot and worry more about their development than they worry about games in April. They were in A ball last season.

 

Sure, but there's still Rasmus and Sisk and the like who don't have those readiness concerns at present, and are still getting passed over for Josh Wall and Yoslan Herrera.

 

You can say Frieri has shown himself to be ineffective in the past, well so is every closer in baseball. Frieri saved 90% of his games last year, just a hunch but that probably puts him in the top half of the league

 

 

Seriously, didn't Fernando Rodney break us of the habit of judging closers based on save conversion rate?

 

Ernesto Frieri was basically league average last year. And he's shown a tendency to have these stretches where he looks completely helpless on the mound.

 

My point isn't that Frieri is terrible, it's that the fact that he's shown a propensity to go through these stretches so it's not like this should be catching Dipoto completely off-guard.

 

Even Herrera went into last nights game with a 1.5 ERA.

 

 

A 1.5 ERA with a walk per inning, quite a few hits allowed, and a crazy low groundball rate. He's been an awful garbage pitcher all along, and it's not quite comforting that the decision makers here seem to have bought into the smoke and mirrors.

 

As far as referring to Herrera or Wall as Scioscia's toys, that's just being lazy because you don't like Scioscia.

 

 

Well I agree...that was kind of my point. Scioscia is the one using them, but Dipoto is 100% responsible for Scioscia having them to use. The fact that there here and being used indicates that both Scioscia and Dipoto see some value in them(for some reason).

[Stradling]

All closers go through rough stretches, at the end of the day 90% conversion rate is better than the norm. Also I thought Rodney was brought in not because of save percent but because of the number of saves he had. I have no idea if Sisk or Rasmus are any good but I certainly would love to find out. I truly think the team is trying to patch work the bullpen until they feel the young studs are ready not only stuff wise but maturity wise, to handle the inevitable failure that happens to young guys in the majors.

[Torridd]

i'm not really joining the discussion in any capacity other than to say, the bullpen is an annual turnover event. any team could entirely overhaul virtually their entire bullpen any given year if they wanted to. good, even great, bullpen guys are a dime a dozen. you can piece meal it together from seemingly inconsequential minor league trades and veteran bp guys that are on upswings. you just have to be adept at recognizing them.

I agree. Blaming this on Reagins is ridiculous. Look how long he's been gone.

[arch stanton]

This pen has no Jerome Williams for multiple innings or Scott Downs for stranding runners. Those are the 2 big issues. It's a weeding out process for those roles and that's not where you want the 3 youngins right now.

Edited April 30, 2014 by arch stanton

[Angel Oracle]

One issue is that even though the starters rarely get hit hard, we have Weaver, Wilson, and Santiago not being able to consistently give them 6-7 solid innings like Skaggs and Richards have. That plus the putrid RISP hitting = too much pressure on mostly mediocre relievers in close games.

Can we rely on the starters and hitters to be like this in 2015 only with better clutch hitting? And then can Morin, Alvarez, and Bedrock Jr. join Smith to give the Halos a lights out back end of the pen?

Maybe then the Halos can FINALLY make the post-season by 2015 and end this stupid 2010's drought?