Frieri is finished as closer!

[tdawg87]

This is why having a "closer" is stupid and needs to stop being a thing. Having one guy come into close out the game no matter what the situation because that is his "role" is unbelievably outdated and frankly, idiotic. Having a lefty on hand to face Jaso (because everyone in the stadium knew he was going to pinch hit for Norris) would have been the best scenario. But no, we need the closer to close out the game because reasons.

 

I'm not blaming Scioscia for this because most managers would do the exact same thing, I just think it needs to stop.

[Waybackman]

I couldn't agree more with this thread. I live in Northern Cal and watch many A's games. Melvin is a much more flexible manager than MS and his results speak for themselves. Scioscia used to manage in a creative way. He also had Percival, Shields and K-Rod, so he could rely on them day after day. But those days are over. He should now let the best available arm close the games out. He just refuses to budge from his formula and it's becoming heartbreaking to watch year after year. Maybe giving him that ridiculous 10-year contract made him think he was really a genius. It's killing me and probably some other fans.

[Adam]

this is so dead on.  melvin knows exactly who scioscia is warming up, he knows who hes gonna bring in the 7th, 8th and 9th innings, who he is gonna pinch hit for, and he can plan his game according to what scioscia has done the last several years.

 

opposing managers pretty much know what scioscia is gonna do next, he never deviates from his set formula and it gives opposing managers a huge advantage in late game strategy.

 

While true, most teams have pretty much the same bullpen rotation late in games. At the end of the day, the Angels do not have guys who can execute with any consistency. Good relievers neutralize managerial maneuvering. 

[Stradling]

Melvin knows how to use the players he has in the best ways to win ballgames.

Scioscia has memorized an inning by inning set formula that he is unable to deviate from.

The results of the two approaches have been pretty obvious for a few seasons now, this is neither new nor startling.

Melvin owns Scioscia, both in close ballgames and in the season standings.

Watch them both manage for a while, and the differences in their approach to the game become more and more obvious.

I agree with you as it relates to Scioscia being very systematic. I don't agree that that is the reason we are losing games while the A's are winning games. Nothing Scioscia did last night won or lost them that game. You can blame him for bringing in Frieri, but really does it matter if you bring him in in the 8th or 9th? If you bring him in in the 8th then Jaso pinch hits in the 8th. The group of guys that Melvin has that Beane gave him execute better than the Angel players. Frieri couldn't get a breaking ball or a change up over for a strike, then he grooved one and it got launched. It sucks, but it is baseball.

[Stradling]

You all think I am a Scioscia apologist, but that isn't really the case, as a matter of fact I thought they should have gotten rid of him in the offseason and was surprised when they didn't. I have just watched enough baseball in my time to not necessarily look at things and say A+B=C. I honestly don't think this team is a Mike Scioscia type of team, and for that reason he should be let go as soon as the team is ready to admit that. I also feel that Mike is the kind of guy that needs set roles for people because that is how he feels comfortable and he also thinks that is how a player feels comfortable. I think the great bullpen arms he had made Mike look incredible. Those same moves don't work these days, because the players just aren't as good.

[markb]

If Frieri would just work his secondary pitches in more effectively, the guy could be absolutely dominant.  His FB already induces a swing-and-miss over 10% more than league average, and that's with guys pretty much looking for it.  Imagine if they were actually threatened with something else.  

 

His changeup looks pretty good.  Two of us even commented in the gameday thread on how good the one he threw to Jaso was, but with only one strike Jaso spit on it knowing he could just wait for a FB.  Then Frieri proceeds to chuck two more fastballs at him.  I just don't understand the pitch sequencing at all there.  I suppose a lot of it was missed location, as I think i recall Hank setting up for something outside and it came down and in, but he's really not keeping guys off balance at all right now.  

[Brent Maguire]

While true, most teams have pretty much the same bullpen rotation late in games. At the end of the day, the Angels do not have guys who can execute with any consistency. Good relievers neutralize managerial maneuvering. 

Yeah pretty much.

 

Scioscia gets crap for bullpen management but it's not like he has many good arms to go to. I'd like to see a closer by committee but the fact is we only have Frieri and Smith as good relievers right now. 

[Marsaka]

scioscia gets crap for bullpen management because he brings in salas and jepsen in high leverage situations.  his bullpen management has already cost the team 3 wins in 13 games.

[Stradling]

Marsaka, You can not expect him to pitch Smith in every single game. If so, then yea maybe we win another game, certainly not three games. But when you pitch him every day, what are the odds he will be effective later in the season? This isn't xbox. Also, we have two blown saves? Salas blew the game when Weaver pitched over the weekend, and then last night? Were there any others? We have Jepsen and Salas, we don't have guys that can really get the job done right now.

[jshep]

I think he's referring more to situations like that Mets game where he was perfectly willing to use Smith for 3 outs, but apparently asking him to get 4 outs was just too much.

 

That said, yeah there is absolutely a lack of talent in the bullpen right now, especially with DDLR injured/just not right. And that is largely on Dipoto and the FO.

Edited April 16, 2014 by jshep

[Butcher'd]

Marsaka, You can not expect him to pitch Smith in every single game. If so, then yea maybe we win another game, certainly not three games. But when you pitch him every day, what are the odds he will be effective later in the season? This isn't xbox. Also, we have two blown saves? Salas blew the game when Weaver pitched over the weekend, and then last night? Were there any others? We have Jepsen and Salas, we don't have guys that can really get the job done right now.

 

Yep. Dipoto and Scioscia share the blame. As much as I dislike sosh as a manager, it's not all his fault

Edited April 16, 2014 by Butcher'd

[AngelsFaninGA]

scioscia gets crap for bullpen management because he brings in salas and jepsen in high leverage situations.  his bullpen management has already cost the team 3 wins in 13 games.

 

To be fair to Scioscia, what's he supposed to do? We have one good reliever. DiPoto needs to give him a bullpen he can work with and stop trading for scrubs like Salas and keeping Jepsen on the roster when he should have been released years ago. 

[Stradling]

Yea, and I agree with that. He should have had him come out for the 7th. At some point however, you are going to need more than two guys in the pen that perform and you have to put those guys in games and they have to execute.

[jshep]

Yea, and I agree with that. He should have had him come out for the 7th. At some point however, you are going to need more than two guys in the pen that perform and you have to put those guys in games and they have to execute.

 

Yep, and I'll agree with that.

 

Scioscia has a bad habit of not doing himself any favors with the way he manages the pen, but he's also been handed some all around pretty awful bullpens in recent years.

[Stradling]

I put this in another thread, Ernesto had saved 90% of his chances last year. So if he would have been an elite closer and saved 93% of his chances, we would have won one more game.

[Inside Pitch]

I put this in another thread, Ernesto had saved 90% of his chances last year. So if he would have been an elite closer and saved 93% of his chances, we would have won one more game.

 

Pretty sure Mo failed to top 90% in any of his three final (full) seasons.  His career save percentage BTW was 89.0%.  Trevor Hoffman, the NL version of Mo had a career save percentage of 88.77%   FTR, 7 decades worth of research at Retrosheet shows that teams leading by one run after 8 innings go on to win 85.7% of the time -- those numbers rise to 93.7%, and 97.5% with two and three runs respectively.

 

Last night's game sticks out like it does because Frieri is of the few pitchers in the bullpen people have any confidence in, so when he tanks it's all the more frustrating.

[Angelsjunky]

He's not the closer for a contender - sorry if this goes against the New World Order, but this is getting ridiculous.

 

What happened to the Rant thread, anyway?

[tdawg87]

I think I have a new most disliked player. I am so sick of watching this idiot "pitch".

[Chimi]

8 runs in 8.2 innings this year including 6 HRs.  Other teams have already changed closers yet we continue to push this guy out there to finish games.  Unbelievable how stubborn Scioscia is with this.

[Stradling]

**** that guy

[jshep]

**** Frieri

**** Salas

**** Jepsen

**** Herrera

 

**** Dipoto

[bloodbrother]

This pen will be the death of them. At least 3 games they should have won that they pissed away. They could very well be tied with Tex/Oak right now record wise if they had any semblance of a good bullpen

[Taylor]

Salas comes in and gives up the winning hit on the first f'ing pitch.

[Angelsjunky]

Game over. Brian Fuentes Part 2.

[Jason]

I don't even want him on the team anymore, in any role.