Phil Ivy Professional Cheater

[Blarg]

And the Borgata Casino is suing him for their crappy cards. Ivey is being accused of edge sorting because the casino bought defective cards and he spotted a defect and exploited the shuffle.

 

I kind of think it is all the casinos loss for not securing their tables with uniformly printed cards. It is not up to the player to inform them of the defects or play in a way that ignores the advantage. Even if Ivy went out of his way to make sure the cards were run through a automatic dealer to prevent the cards from being shuffled uneven, it was the casino that agreed to grant his request.

 

Can't copy paste the link because IE11 sucks donkey balls but it is on the MSN front page.

[Brandon]

Same thing happened either a few months ago or last year with him in France at The Aviation Club.

[halobob]

How did he cheat exactly?

[DW711]

That's way more on the casino than him.

 

They weigh the dice at craps even at the 2-5 dollar tables and they can't see that there's a defect on one of their cards?

 

That's their cards, not his.

[Brandon]

How did he cheat exactly?

 

Deadspin can explain it easier than I can. When cards are designed and created, the non face side is done in some kind of design, usually a diamond pattern. Cards are supposed to all be cut the same with the same exact pattern of diamonds all looking alike. However, if you get an off deck, every card doesn't have the same diamond design on the back...it's the same pattern, but at the edges of the card you can see a difference when off decks will have a mix of the card cutting off at the end of the diamond and other cards will have the end be in the middle of the diamond design.

 

You just figure out which cards have which design and in this particular game as you bet after you have cards in your hand you can bet based on what you or the dealer has as you're playing against the house.

 

This instance is like a visual card counting.

[yk9001]

Brandon, do you consider this cheating?

[Brandon]

Depends how you look at it. I think he was cheating, but it was also casino allowed. They met all his sketchy parameters and didn't think that they were odd. I don't know the timelines, but if it happened after the France story came out then it's even more on the casino.

But in general I don't find things like someone finding a loophole or card counting cheating more than the house creating their edge.

But both stories about him seem pretty blatant. I just fault the casinos as well for negligence.

[Adam]

I want to know what Maple and Ernest, those old blue hairs. who follow him around the world, think of this

[Blarg]

[Brandon]

Actually, now I don't consider it cheating. Found a doc on Netflix last night about Don Johnson, the gambler. I remember threads on him as he was the dude that took the Tropicana for 5+mm and another 10mm in Atlantic City playing blackjack. The premise of the doc was how he beat the casinos and it goes indepth about casino comps to get players in and changing the rules of the games to get these whales in....Phil is one of these type of guys.

 

Don had a system, but also set the rules in his favor to eliminate or even give himself the house edge, Phil did the same and the casinos want them in and accomodate them and their rules or uggestions, like playing with certain decks, because the house still thinks their edge is there and in the long run they will take the players money.

 

Don did the exact same thing as Phil, just in a different game.

 

After watching the documentary, it's almost like casinos will let these guys cheat still expecting to win in the end. I guess the difference is Don got his money and documentary and Phil is being sued.

[Blarg]

I don't think there a grounds for a lawsuit when the casino provided the deck and agreed to the playing conditions. Their only recourse is ban him from their casino.

[Brandon]

In the documentary I watched, the player said he was banned from all Ceasars/Harrahs locations. However, the ceo of the company said they can't ban players, just not allow the perks to play there...which we all know is bogus.

[Vegas Halo Fan]

Some casinos also place house players at tables in various games. Especially if someone is winning too much, the person who joins the game may be an employee playing on house money. Anything he/she wins goes back into the house's pot later, and it isn't there for players at the table to win. If card counting is unethical, so is this.

 

I have heard of the same thing happening in large stakes bingo operations. Before I left Oklahoma I used to go to one of these fairly often, until I figured out that house players were winning a lot of the games, especially those with big payouts. There was one guy who seemed to win a lot more frequently than he should in a hall with that many people in it. Turns out that he operated a bus that brought players to the hall from the Oklahoma City metro area (the hall was located in a rural area well east of Norman), and he was also making money off of players paying him for the ride to the bingo hall. The operators were throwing games to him as a reward. He pissed off a lot of people in the hall, because he couldn't just call "bingo" like most people would. He made a major production out of it.

Edited April 19, 2014 by Vegas Halo Fan

[stevestevens]

High stakes bingo is ruthless

[Brandon]

They do that with poker too. They have house players that, 1) sit in games to balance tables or have enough players to play, or 2) create big pots so the house can take more rake.

 

I talked a bit with one that was a well known house player where I used to frequent. 

[Hollyw00d]

so the casino gets to sue ivey for being weak and allowing a dude to play them?  BS.  casinos shouldn't be treated like other businesses, seeing as how their whole operation is based off taking advantage of people

[Brandon]

Yeah, you're never going to see a casino stop letting some mope play that is making bad decisions from drinking or tilt.

[The Ghost of Bob Starr]

Def not cheating.