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Coaching staff... to blame or not to blame


floplag

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I am not one that typically blames coaches for the failures of players on the field.. guys are either going to produce or not produce and typically the coaches aside from adjustments and such arent going ot have a giant affect on that.
 

However... there is one thing the coaches have a huge affect on, and that is the fact that they are the team leaders.  The players need to have faith in them to take them at their word, and that those adjustments will be positive.

 

I am deeply concerned that the players on our team have lost that faith in the coaching staff.  When you start to see the public comments, questions moves, and seeing far too many guys perform better after leaving, it make you wonder if the players have lost that confidence in the coaching staff or even if what those coaches are doing are a positive, or a negative.

 

At this point in time, i cant help but feels that is where we are as an organization.

 

I dont know who would be worth getting that would be any better at this point but continuously seeing guys with far too much talent not living up to it.. throwing money at that problem isnt going to fix it.

 

If this keeps up i dont see how Arte and the Front office are going to have mcuh choice but to consider coaching replacements on the pitching side and managerial side... though obviously i cant ding Baylor at this point as its too soon.

 

Thoughts?   i find this odd as im not one to typically point fingers at coaches or managers, but at this point with too many years of under performance and another fall on our face start, i have to admit im not happy and very concerned, perhaps its time for a change... though ive no idea who might be the choice for that change at the top or PC

Edited by floplag
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I am not one that typically blames coaches for the failures of players on the field.. guys are either going to produce or not produce and typically the coaches aside from adjustments and such arent going ot have a giant affect on that.

 

However... there is one thing the coaches have a huge affect on, and that is the fact that they are the team leaders.  The players need to have faith in them to take them at their word, and that those adjustments will be positive.

 

I am deeply concerned that the players on our team have lost that faith in the coaching staff.  When you start to see the public comments, questions moves, and seeing far too many guys perform better after leaving, it make you wonder if the players have lost that confidence in the coaching staff or even if what those coaches are doing are a positive, or a negative.

 

At this point in time, i cant help but feels that is where we are as an organization.

 

I dont know who would be worth getting that would be any better at this point but continuously seeing guys with far too much talent not living up to it.. throwing money at that problem isnt going to fix it.

 

If this keeps up i dont see how Arte and the Front office are going to have mcuh choice but to consider coaching replacements on the pitching side and managerial side... though obviously i cant ding Baylor at this point as its too soon.

 

Thoughts?   i find this odd as im not one to typically point fingers at coaches or managers, but at this point with too many years of under performance and another fall on our face start, i have to admit im not happy and very concerned, perhaps its time for a change... though ive no idea who might be the choice for that change at the top or PC

I have to disagree. Having spoken with the players and the coaches, watching them interract, I do not see it.

 

This was a bad series. That's it. A bad series.

 

The Angels were what, 11 out of 12 for their final Spring Training games? So, stretching it out, they are what, 11 out of their last 15?

 

By the way, the Yankees are 0-2 against the Astros. Do you really think it's the end of the season for them?

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I have to disagree. Having spoken with the players and the coaches, watching them interract, I do not see it.

 

This was a bad series. That's it. A bad series.

 

The Angels were what, 11 out of 12 for their final Spring Training games? So, stretching it out, they are what, 11 out of their last 15?

 

By the way, the Yankees are 0-2 against the Astros. Do you really think it's the end of the season for them?

 

1-11 with RISP

Soriano 0-8 with four strikeouts

 

The NY media is up in arms right now. 

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The best coaching staff in the world couldn't have stopped the Mariners hot bats and tremendous pitching the past 3 games. 

 

Every team gets hot. The M's are one of them right now. Our turn will come and we'll have our havoc on another team or two. 

 

Just hoping it's against our division rivals. 

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I have to disagree. Having spoken with the players and the coaches, watching them interract, I do not see it.

 

This was a bad series. That's it. A bad series.

 

The Angels were what, 11 out of 12 for their final Spring Training games? So, stretching it out, they are what, 11 out of their last 15?

 

By the way, the Yankees are 0-2 against the Astros. Do you really think it's the end of the season for them?

Except they are not 11 out of their last 15. The first twelve games did not count.

 

They are having yet another crappy start to the season. Stop me if this isn't familiar territory.

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I blame the hype to begin with. Lets face the facts.

Weaver, Hamilton and Pujols are all past their prime but we are still expecting Cy Young and MVP seasons from them. Freese is not very good and we have taken a huge step south at DH. Iannetta has been a huge disappointment and our entire pitching staff is unsettled and unreliable. Mike Trout is all we got and he can't do it all. I love our Angels but who are we kidding to consider this a championship caliber team. It's time to rebuild.

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The coaches absolutely share in the blame. However the coaches have little or nothing to do with Howie being hitless or his error. Or Freese getting picked off. Or CJ grooving the pitch to Smoak. The team knows it has to get off to a good start and I think it's paralyzing them.

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I blame the hype to begin with. Lets face the facts.

Weaver, Hamilton and Pujols are all past their prime but we are still expecting Cy Young and MVP seasons from them. Freese is not very good and we have taken a huge step south at DH. Iannetta has been a huge disappointment and our entire pitching staff is unsettled and unreliable. Mike Trout is all we got and he can't do it all. I love our Angels but who are we kidding to consider this a championship caliber team. It's time to rebuild.

 

Couldn't have summed it up better myself.

 

I would only disagree with you on Weaver. He has some quality years left, in my opinion.

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I blame the hype to begin with. Lets face the facts.

Weaver, Hamilton and Pujols are all past their prime but we are still expecting Cy Young and MVP seasons from them. Freese is not very good and we have taken a huge step south at DH. Iannetta has been a huge disappointment and our entire pitching staff is unsettled and unreliable. Mike Trout is all we got and he can't do it all. I love our Angels but who are we kidding to consider this a championship caliber team. It's time to rebuild.

 

Who is this "we"  you are talking about?  The threads on Weaver have been discussing his velocity drop for the last few years and while he's stayed effective I haven't seen anyone talk about him being a serious cy young threat for a few years.  The threads on Pujols/Hamilton talked about rebound seasons for them and how important those are but no MVP talk.  While I don't read the main forum as much as most of the other posters during the off season most everyone seemed to agree this team had major question marks and holes on it particularly in the rotation and bullpen.  I'm just hoping for the playoffs and haven't gone into the last few seasons thinking this team was championship caliber team.  I'm sure there's some super optimists that have made some claims but the majority don't seem to be drinking that koolaid.  

Edited by Catwhoshatinthehat
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Honestly, aside from Trout and Weaver and Calhoun I wouldn't care if everyone else in an Angels uniform, from batboys to players to coaches and the FO were gone tomorrow.  I've had it with the joyless bunch of losers.

 

Added big red. This is not an enjoyable baseball team—win or lose.

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Although Mike Butcher has not specifically been mentioned, I know that his name will come up in this thread.  I have also thought that he did not do much to develop the pitchers that he was coaching - that they did not improve much under Butcher.  However, looking at the 2013 Media Guide, I see that "since taking over as pitching coach in 2007, Butcher's starters lead the AL in wins (409) and shutouts (24), & rank second in innings pitched (5976.2), complete games (49) and are T2nd in ERA (4.07)...In that same span, Halos relievers lead the AL with 276 saves."  I realize that this data is a year old and may not represent a complete picture of Mike Butcher's value, however I believe coaches should be measured over a longer period of time and certainly not the last three games.  I do however think that the Angels might consider taking a fresh direction if Mike S cannot turn this thing around fairly soon even though he is under contract until the end of 2018. 

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I wouldn't say coaches, but I think Scioscia is a huge part of it and should take the blame. All these slow starts have one thing in common ... Scioscia. We can blame the players but they've changed over the years. The coaching staff has changed over the years. The front office has changed over the years. Yet, we still have these slow starts after all these changes.

I'm not saying they should fire Scioscia. But I'm wondering how prepared he is actually getting this team during spring training or what philosophy he is teaching because regardless of who is on this team, it always starts slow.

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