Long or Shuck?

[Angel Oracle]

I will say that Shuck's arm is definately better than Willits' arm. No way that Willits throws out Weeks at 2B on that hit off of the fence yesterday.

It all depends on carrying 11 or 12 pitchers.

The sure thing bench players are Conger, Green, and McDonald. 12 pitchers = likely Shuck and not Long. 11 pitchers = both Shuck and Long.

[Redondo]

 

 

The Angels over the last few years has been, they would rather have those with potential get everyday starts, than sit on the bench.  Shuck will be sitting on the bench.  Long will be getting everyday starts at AAA.

 

This sounds about right for the way the FO looks at young players.

[Docwaukee]

As opposed to "Hey JB all you did was hit close to .300 over a full major league season of games that count against other major league pitchers, but this kid was pretty hot over 40 at bats in spring training games against guys wearing No. 73."

 

 

I think this statement is why certain teams don't maximize their potential while teams like the A's get production from 27yo minor leaguers that few have heard of. 

 

I don't mind JB, but the best he is ever going to be is a .300 hitting corner OFer with absolutely no power, decent speed and below average defense.  He hit .300 and was good for all of half a win over almost 500 PA.  That should tell you something. 

[Homebrewer]

Another way to look at it is that Long makes Shuck expendable for even more young pitching.

Assuming, of course, that he is as attractive to a teem in need, as he is to some here. 

[stormngt]

 

 

Bottom line, If a guy who has a spring like Long has had can't get a shot at taking a job from a replacement level player, then what are they even doing out there?

 

This says it all.  There is nothing more than Long can do to show he is better than Shuck.  Oh, and for those who minimize Long for facing weaker pitching in spring training, isn't Shuck facing that same pitching this spring?

[Docwaukee]

BR has a cool spring stat that ranks the quality of opponents faced. 

 

10 is MLB

8 is AAA

7 is AA

 

Long is 7.7 and Shuck is 8.6 so JB has seen pitchers of a higher level this spring.  Frankly, not sure how much this means in limited at bats as Long has pretty much hammered everything he's seen. 

[Marsaka]

i think long makes the team anyways since the angels dont really have a backup cf.  i guess they can put hamilton there if needed, but with his calf injury it wouldnt be very wise.

 

shuck cant even play the corners proplerly so he's out of the question.  it just makes so much sense for long to make the team, and even if someone claims shuck off waivers, who cares?  his production and defense are easily replaceable.

[HuntingtonMike]

I'd hope they cut Ibanez loose and bring up someone.   Green, Long, Shuck, they could all share the spot and the Angels would be no worse for the wear.

Agree.  Much rather have Cron, Long, or Green over Ibanez.  I have a feeling this is going to be my main gripe this season.

[Docwaukee]

Ibanez will be getting at least 200ab before he sits, but I wouldn't be surprised if he's only seeing rhers and Green gets the nod vs. lefties.  It's kinda why I wanted to see them let green play some 1b.  Give Albert a DH day vs. lefties.  I am concerned that with all the CF Cowgill has been playing that he is considered the incumbent backup. 

[Inside Pitch]

Ibanez will be getting at least 200ab before he sits, but I wouldn't be surprised if he's only seeing rhers and Green gets the nod vs. lefties.  It's kinda why I wanted to see them let green play some 1b.  Give Albert a DH day vs. lefties.  I am concerned that with all the CF Cowgill has been playing that he is considered the incumbent backup. 

 

A lot of Cowgill's scouting reports from 2010, and 2011, praise him for his ability to play above average defense everywhere in the OF...   

[YouthofToday]

Long >>> Shuck

[Mark68]

Both

 

They both bring different elements to the table.

Long brings some pop, and Shuck brings some average and on base ability.

[YouthofToday]

A .331 OBP and 5.6% walk rate is not acceptable from a LF only guy without power and below average defense. That is a NRI if anything.

[Mark68]

A .331 OBP and 5.6% walk rate is not acceptable from a LF only guy without power and below average defense. That is a NRI if anything.

How many Angels had a better OBP last year?

 

I will tell you. Out of Angel players with 300+ PAs, only Trout, Iannetta, and Kendrick had higher OBPs.

[Jeff Fletcher]

One thing also to remember is that the guy in this role isn't going to play much, so you need someone who can sit around for 5 days and then come up and get a hit.

If you look back at last April, before Bourjos got hurt, Shuck proved (in the majors) that he can do this.

It's not like Long is this great prospect either. He's older than Shuck.

I'm sure Long will get called up at some point this year. But I think they give Shuck the first shot based on what he did last year. If he struggles and Long is doing well at triple-A they can switch them.

[Docwaukee]

While I agree that nothing is set in stone and things change as the season progresses, the bench players do get quite a bit of time over the course of the year.  Generally it amounts to about 20-30% of the total. As a team generally has about 6000pa in a regular season, that means about 1200-1800 pa from the bench depending on injuries, poor play, etc.  

 

Granted, those are divided among your 2nd catcher, Util guys, and prospects later in the season.  But overall, you typically get about 400-500 pa from your OF bench.  So who mans that spot is actually fairly important.  Like your 6th and 7th SP.  

 

My fear is that what Shuck did last year is the best we could hope from him and he's probably pretty likely to give you about the same.  Therefore, they won't try someone else if he does so and he will get the lion's share of those at bats giving you about replacement level production at best.  

 

So why not try Matt Long from the start with the thought that he could give you more than that and if he fails, he get's sent down in favor of Shuck who has less potential but you are likely to know what you are getting.  

[WallyWorld]

I like that we're having a debate about the 4th OF and not who is going to play 3B or hit in the middle of the lineup or anything else major.  Good position to be in. 

[Homebrewer]

One thing also to remember is that the guy in this role isn't going to play much, so you need someone who can sit around for 5 days and then come up and get a hit.

If you look back at last April, before Bourjos got hurt, Shuck proved (in the majors) that he can do this.

It's not like Long is this great prospect either. He's older than Shuck.

I'm sure Long will get called up at some point this year. But I think they give Shuck the first shot based on what he did last year. If he struggles and Long is doing well at triple-A they can switch them.

 

Disagree. He played in 129 games, and had almost 500 PAs last season. That is hardly every 5 games.

He had the numbers he had last year because he got regular playing time.

How he would do if he sat 5 days between starts is yet to be seen.

 

Also, why have "competition" in ST, if bench jobs are predetermined by last season...which was an abysmal season.

[yvangelfan]

This team needs more Beardocity. 

 

No, it doesn't.

[Llewyn Davis]

It's not like Long is this great prospect either. He's older than Shuck.

 

Long is 2 months older than Shuck. That's got to be the worst argument brought up so far. Don't know why so many people are enamored with Shuck; he's extremely limited. Long has considerably more upside. He should have been up last year instead of Shuck. Only the Angels would make this a "tough decision." It's a slam dunk, if you ask me.

[DB24]

Though decision...glad I don't have to make it.

[Homebrewer]

Dipoto, being interviewed now before the game, just called Long the brightest spot in ST. He used such phrases " He's been a revelation" and "Has had a spring training for the ages"

 

Doesn't sound like a guy he is about to send down to SLC.

[Hubs]

Why not keep them both up along with Conger, Green, and McDonald. A 5 man bench for once. 

 

Later in the season, if they need another arm in the pen, they can send one of Shuck/Long down. 

 

The Pen is likely to be Frieri, Smith, Jepsen, DDLR, Burnett, Salas. If DDLR and Burnett have to start on the DL, then Maronde or Moran and Kohn can have their spots. Why carry these extra guys who aren't going to be needed early on?

[Hubs]

If it were a ST competition, clearly Long would win.

[Jeff Fletcher]

Disagree. He played in 129 games, and had almost 500 PAs last season. That is hardly every 5 games.

He had the numbers he had last year because he got regular playing time.

How he would do if he sat 5 days between starts is yet to be seen.

Also, why have "competition" in ST, if bench jobs are predetermined by last season...which was an abysmal season.

He hit .429 in April before Bourjos got hurt. When he was barely playing. Granted, it's not a lot of at bats, but Scioscia specifically said a guy like him is good to come off the bench because he has a short quick swing and doesn't try to hit homers.

As for "competition" in spring training, it's a myth that gives fans and media something to write about. You have much more meaningful information on players from what theyve done in real games in their careers than stupid spring training games.

One Angels person when asked about Matt long a couple weeks ago said "it's spring training."

Edited March 25, 2014 by Jeff Fletcher