Long or Shuck?

[Llewyn Davis]

Long deserves the nod. If he doesn't get his shot with us, I hope he catches on elsewhere and gets an opportunity. Because he should be a Big Leaguer. And not only that... he could be an above average player, unlike Shuck.

Edited March 23, 2014 by Llewyn Davis

[2002_halos_II]

Does it have to be only 1?

Edited March 23, 2014 by 2002_halos_II

[Brent Maguire]

I think Long starts in AAA and gets called up when he's needed.

I don't love Shuck but he's decent as a 4th outfielder who can hit for average, get on base at a decent rate and be a fast runner.

Long definitely looks like he can be a better 4th outfielder for this team but Shuck is most likely going to get the nod

[gotbeer]

I think Long starts in AAA and gets called up when he's needed.

I don't love Shuck but he's decent as a 4th outfielder who can hit for average, get on base at a decent rate and be a fast runner.

Long definitely looks like he can be a better 4th outfielder for this team but Shuck is most likely going to get the nod

 

 

This brings up a good point about Angels philosophy.  Shuck is what he is.  I don't think he will get better, or worse.  

 

Long has had steady minor league numbers.  In the .800+ish range.  

 

The Angels over the last few years has been, they would rather have those with potential get everyday starts, than sit on the bench.  Shuck will be sitting on the bench.  Long will be getting everyday starts at AAA.

[disarcina]

Shuck -- Long has more options left -- could use another season in AAA and delaying his MLB time probably maintains his 'club control' time rather than starting that clock.

[SoWhat]

Shuck -- Long has more options left -- could use another season in AAA and delaying his MLB time probably maintains his 'club control' time rather than starting that clock.

I don't think delaying his clock matters. The guy is 27 and has played just about 200 games at AAA, while putting up an .800+ OPS. Long is more than ready

Edited March 23, 2014 by SoWhat

[disarcina]

did not realize Matt Long was 27 -- thought he was younger -- he must have been drafted out of a college program.....

 

I still think Shuck sticks -- he's done ok this spring and is somewhat of a proven commodity at the MLB level.

 

amazing how quickly a partial season of MLB starts turns you into MLB proven.........

[AngelsAndRamsFan]

did not realize Matt Long was 27 -- thought he was younger -- he must have been drafted out of a college program.....

 

I still think Shuck sticks -- he's done ok this spring and is somewhat of a proven commodity at the MLB level.

 

amazing how quickly a partial season of MLB starts turns you into MLB proven.........

http://www.baseball-reference.com/minors/player.cgi?id=long--003mat

 

He was a 30th round draft pick in 2009 from Santa Clara University.

[Classic Pick^ Line]

Why are some so down on Shuck?  He hustles and makes a real effort every time I watch him.  He's pretty much milk and toast, but at least he can hit for average, run, defend reasonably and not make bone headed plays.

[ELEVEN]

I just cant stand watching Shuck in the OF. He's brutal.

[Classic Pick^ Line]

He's made some highlight reels in the OF.

[SoWhat]

-4.6 UZR and -4 DRS is pretty bad. Even if you don't like defensive stats, you could see with your own eyes that he's not a good defender. 

[Classic Pick^ Line]

I guess I have not watched enough of Shuck.  Not thinking he's "good" but not thinking he's "bad" either based on what I've seen.  Maybe I'm blind.

[Jeff Fletcher]

That will be a crazy convo. "Gee Matt, all you did is rip up Spring Training hitting .400 and next to 27, the team MVP. Here's your ticket to SLC. Have fun."

Gulp!

As opposed to "Hey JB all you did was hit close to .300 over a full major league season of games that count against other major league pitchers, but this kid was pretty hot over 40 at bats in spring training games against guys wearing No. 73."

[tomsred]

 

Willits 2.0

 

Look how much their minor league numbers mirror each other. 

 

Shuck: .301/.382/.381/.763

Willits: .293/.391/.378/.769

 

Is there a particular reason you like using minor league stats vs. major league stats?

 

Shuck  .290/.335/.359/.694

Willits   .258/.356/.302/.658

 

These are Major League lifetime numbers.  Other than OBP, Shuck is somewhat superior hitting wise.  I agree with Mr. Fletcher in the Long vs. Shuck analysis.

[Scott34]

As opposed to "Hey JB all you did was hit close to .300 over a full major league season of games that count against other major league pitchers, but this kid was pretty hot over 40 at bats in spring training games against guys wearing No. 73."

"You also defended terribly and overall defined the term replacement level player."

How can you not give it to Long is the better question. Dude is more versatile, can produce more than an empty average and can run the bases pretty well.

Shuck seems like a great guy and whatnot but I don't understand the general love that Angel fans have for him.

[SoWhat]

Is there a particular reason you like using minor league stats vs. major league stats?

 

Shuck  .290/.335/.359/.694

Willits   .258/.356/.302/.658

 

These are Major League lifetime numbers.  Other than OBP, Shuck is somewhat superior hitting wise.  I agree with Mr. Fletcher in the Long vs. Shuck analysis.

 

I wasn't trying to prove a point or anything, it was just something I found interesting that I threw out there.

 

 

Sure those are Major League career numbers, but they're also very misleading. Shuck has played a total of 166 games throughout his ML career, whereas Willits played 414. It's not really fair to compare career numbers when one guy has played more than double the amount of games than the other has. But if you wanna compare their first full year in the league, Willits had a higher OPS and oWAR than Shuck, making him "superior hitting wise". 

[markb]

As opposed to "Hey JB all you did was hit close to .300 over a full major league season of games that count against other major league pitchers, but this kid was pretty hot over 40 at bats in spring training games against guys wearing No. 73."

 

Slugged .366.   Drew 27 walks in 478 PAs.  Played sub-par defense.  Judging a guy solely by AVG is just as 1980's as judging a pitcher solely by wins.  

[SoWhat]

Slugged .366.   Drew 27 walks in 478 PAs.  Played sub-par defense.  Judging a guy solely by AVG is just as 1980's as judging a pitcher solely by wins.  

 

 

 

All of that to go along with a 5.6 BB% and an average of 3.59 pitches seen per plate appearance. I don't see the offensive value in Shuck that everyone else does 

Edited March 23, 2014 by SoWhat

[Brent Maguire]

People like Shuck because he made a few highlight reel grabs and is that "gritty" player. Plus, he hit close to .300 so that automatically means he's a good hitter.

I think Long could outproduce Shuck as a 4th outfielder but I doubt Long makes the team over Shuck. We will see.

[HaloFan85]

Long offers more power and can play all OF positions, including 2B. 

 

I like Long better, but Shuck will make it and I won't be too pissed about that either. Shuck can get on base and hit at a .300 clip and net some extra base hits. He has 5 triples in ST.  

Long is more than a 4th outfielder, he's a possible replacement for Hamilton in a few years.  The team should go with Shuck for the obvious reasons - he can get on base and cover all outfields.  He'll also be a perfect fit for when Hamilton, Trout, or Calhoun need a day off.  Just lead him off and slide the top of the order down.

 

If we go with 11 pitchers as mentioned another thread, I'd guess Conger, Shuck, Cowgill, Green, and Pena for the bench.

[Broad Street]

Long is more than a 4th outfielder, he's a possible replacement for Hamilton in a few years. The team should go with Shuck for the obvious reasons - he can get on base and cover all outfields. He'll also be a perfect fit for when Hamilton, Trout, or Calhoun need a day off. Just lead him off and slide the top of the order down.

If we go with 11 pitchers as mentioned another thread, I'd guess Conger, Shuck, Cowgill, Green, and Pena for the bench.

Pena won't beat out MacDonald.

[Inside Pitch]

I'm decidedly in the pro-Long camp, I said so early in ST and I hope he ends up on the Angels this year.   It looks like a lot of people high on him which is nice to see but it's worth noting that based on his OppQual figure of 7.7 this spring that he's not really faced the best possible competition (Sub-AAA).  While I don't think he's Patrick Lennon, it's an easy mistake to put too much weight in ST numbers.

 

Unless he's going to get a decent amount of playing time the Angels lose absolutely nothing by sending him to AAA and letting him get regular at bats.  The Angels really need to consider both Long and Cron as their first options should Ibanez's second half fade from last year carry on into this season.  IMO, he should be the first guy brought up once the pitching staff settles down and the team goes with a more traditional 11 man pitching staff.

[Second Base]

In the event Ibanez is hitting .220, you'd hope the Angels look to Grant Green a long, long time before they look to Matt Long or JB Shuck. I'd look to Cron before Long/Shuck because he at least replaces a lot of the power lost in the Trumbo trade.

[Inside Pitch]

In the event Ibanez is hitting .220, you'd hope the Angels look to Grant Green a long, long time before they look to Matt Long or JB Shuck. I'd look to Cron before Long/Shuck because he at least replaces a lot of the power lost in the Trumbo trade.

 

I'd hope they cut Ibanez loose and bring up someone.   Green, Long, Shuck, they could all share the spot and the Angels would be no worse for the wear.