Have at it MS "Fan Club"

[Inside Pitch]

High Heat Stats â€@HighHeatStats  24m

Top 30 managers in MLB history, minimum 3 full seasons as MGR, adapted from @baseballtwit's framework: pic.twitter.com/X2IxD7dH5U

 

 

[Blarg]

Bobby Valentine on the list but no Joe Torre? Not sure exactly how they create a list relevant to todays game and include a bunch of managers that played to ties, probably from the early 1900's.

[eligrba]

I think Bruce Bochy is very underrated and Mike Sciocia is very overrated.  I would like to see the same stats for the last 5 yrs.  Me thinks it would be a different story.

[mtangelsfan]

Yeah, I think Sosh gets a bad rap on here but that list loses a ton of credibility with Valentine on there.

[Inside Pitch]

Bobby Valentine on the list but no Joe Torre? Not sure exactly how they create a list relevant to todays game and include a bunch of managers that played to ties, probably from the early 1900's.

 

 

Well, it's all time.....they can't make an all time list and exclude guys from past eras.  

 

It's just a listing of actual wins vs expected wins using pythag basically...  MS teams have typically performed better than their expected records, it's not really new information.  When it's all said and done it doesn't really validate MS or anyone on that list so much as it shows how they rank in a certain area.

 

People's opinions on MS, for or against won't be changed anytime soon.

Edited March 5, 2014 by Inside Pitch

[Inside Pitch]

Here is the bottom 30 for anyone who is curious

 

High Heat Stats â€@HighHeatStats  1h

Bottom 30 MGRs in history, minimum 3 full seasons as MGR, adapted from @baseballtwit. Anybody disagree with 5 worst? pic.twitter.com/gSAQR2ZFy2

 

 

 

Yeah, I think Sosh gets a bad rap on here but that list loses a ton of credibility with Valentine on there.

 

Bobby Valentine is considered a clown, but outside of his debacle with the Red Sox, he's not been considered an awful manager.

 

I think Bruce Bochy is very underrated and Mike Sciocia is very overrated.  I would like to see the same stats for the last 5 yrs.  Me thinks it would be a different story.

 

MS teams have exceeded their expected pythag win totals in four of the last five years -- including a 100 win season when their pythag would have predicted an 88 win season.   Bochy's teams have also exceeded their pythags in four of the last five years.    MS had the best single season overage -- Bochy's seen a better mean overage.

 

Basically all that list ranks is how their respective teams have outperformed their Pythags.

Edited March 5, 2014 by Inside Pitch

[RallyMo]

Me thinks it would be a different story.

 

Obviously it will be different,  but he's apparently done decently by the metrics involved.

[GuliblGuy]

I want a cool first name like Pants

[Blarg]

So I guess Torre and Girardi are screwed because they never had teams that took their 95 wins and the division but never exceeded their Pythag.

[ukyah]

none of the all time great managers make the top 30? a grocery list has more meaning than this.

[RallyMo]

none of the all time great managers make the top 30? a grocery list has more meaning than this.

 

Not really. At least one of the all time great managers made it: Mike Scioscia.

 

Let me help you out with it in the next post...

Edited March 5, 2014 by RallyMo

[RallyMo]

MS has the 15th highest win percentage of any manager w/ over 2000 games.. better than *GASP* Joe Torre.

 

He ranks 24th all time in terms of managers in terms of games above .500.  One of the managers that is above him in that statistical category is still active (Davey Johnson) and 18 of the other 22 are in the HOF.

 

...and something about grocery lists.

Edited March 5, 2014 by RallyMo

[fan_since79]

Some missing names:

 

John McGraw

Joe McCarthy

Connie Mack

Casey Stengel

Tony LaRussa

Bobby Cox

Walter Alston

etc.

 

The list posted here is garbage.

 

[Inside Pitch]

So I guess Torre and Girardi are screwed because they never had teams that took their 95 wins and the division but never exceeded their Pythag.

 

Nah -- they were/are just blessed to have talented teams to manage, just like MS has been for most of his tenure as a manager..   Don't recall people rushing to put Torre in the HOF for his work with the Mets, Cards, or Braves.   

 

none of the all time great managers make the top 30? a grocery list has more meaning than this.

 

 

Understanding that the list simply measures something without claiming "greatness" is probably a good start.

 

[Blarg]

Some missing names:

John McGraw

Joe McCarthy

Connie Mack

Casey Stengel

Tony LaRussa

Bobby Cox

Walter Alston

etc.

The list posted here is garbage.

This list isn't about accomplishing attainable goals but exceeding projections.

[RallyMo]

This list isn't about accomplishing attainable goals but exceeding projections.

 

Sadly for the haterz, Scioscia appears on both of those kinds of lists.

 

If he does what he's already done on average for the rest of his contract, he'll end up in the HOF, much to the dismay of the haterz.

Edited March 5, 2014 by RallyMo

[ukyah]

Nah -- they were/are just blessed to have talented teams to manage, just like MS has been for most of his tenure as a manager..   Don't recall people rushing to put Torre in the HOF for his work with the Mets, Cards, or Braves.   

 

 

 

Understanding that the list simply measures something without claiming "greatness" is probably a good start.

 

 

understanding that the list is a joke is also a good place to start. i'm fully aware of what pythagorean win expectancy is. i'm also fully aware that if that's the list of names for greatest PWE managers in all of history, then PWE might just be a little contrived and have little merit. granted, all of that is my opinion and you are fully entitled to carry on, but i call b.s. on that list.

[ukyah]

Sadly for the haterz, Scioscia appears on both of those kinds of lists.

 

If he does what he's already done on average for the rest of his contract, he'll end up in the HOF, much to the dismay of the haterz.

 

 

i get it, you used "haterz" because it's clever. oh, and it's demeaning.

[Blarg]

Sadly for the haterz, Scioscia appears on both of those kinds of lists.

If he does what he's already done on average for the rest of his contract, he'll end up in the HOF, much to the dismay of the haterz.

But will he have as many World Series rings as Bobby Cox?

[stormngt]

I think Bruce Bochy is very underrated and Mike Sciocia is very overrated.  I would like to see the same stats for the last 5 yrs.  Me thinks it would be a different story.

It would be nice to cherry pick stats...wouldn't it.

[stormngt]

Sadly for the haterz, Scioscia appears on both of those kinds of lists.

 

If he does what he's already done on average for the rest of his contract, he'll end up in the HOF, much to the dismay of the haterz.

 

I said HOF for Scioscia two years ago and was laughed it.  But your right.  If he is about 600 more wins away from being in the top 15 all time wins list for managers.  If not mistaken every manager with 1600+ wins is currently in the HOF.

[Inside Pitch]

understanding that the list is a joke is also a good place to start. i'm fully aware of what pythagorean win expectancy is. i'm also fully aware that if that's the list of names for greatest PWE managers in all of history, then PWE might just be a little contrived and have little merit. granted, all of that is my opinion and you are fully entitled to carry on, but i call b.s. on that list.

 

No, I think most everything your saying here is solid, I also meant no ill will or slight in my response -- my point was simply that the list itself doesn't really attempt to measure greatness in any way shape or form.   If the list were claiming the results = greatness -- I'd call it BS and a joke too.

Edited March 5, 2014 by Inside Pitch

[stormngt]

But will he have as many World Series rings as Bobby Cox?

If I am not mistaken, he already does.

[Inside Pitch]

It would be nice to cherry pick stats...wouldn't it.

 

That list is pretty much a cherry picked stat. 

 

I do wonder if people have as many issues with the bottom 30 as they do the top 30.  I also tend to believe that if MS would have ranked in the bottom 30 many would see the list as much more valid.

 

Mostly I think baseball managers have less of an impact than in any of the big three sports.

Edited March 5, 2014 by Inside Pitch

[RallyMo]

i get it, you used "haterz" because it's clever. oh, and it's demeaning.

 

Bingo.

 

It's really demeaning and is also incredibly clever.

 

I'm glad you get it.

 

I wasn't expecting one of the haterz to have such keen insight.

 

Thank you.