Average LA City firefighter salary last year: $142k

[mp170.6]

CaliAngel has some really bizarre logic.

 

We'll never succeed in changing his mind about why firefighters are so special, but I need to correct an error he continues to make.  Police and firefighter salaries, benefits, and pensions are paid for by local city and county governments unless they work for CHP, CALFIRE, etc.  This is the primary reason so many cities are filing for bankruptcy. 

 

Next time the water main breaks in front of your home, or you run over a pothole and damage your rims, just remember why your city doesn't have the money to fix those things ahead of time. 

[Tank]

CaliAngel has some really bizarre logic.

 

We'll never succeed in changing his mind about why firefighters are so special, but I need to correct an error he continues to make.  Police and firefighter salaries, benefits, and pensions are paid for by local city and county governments unless they work for CHP, CALFIRE, etc.  This is the primary reason so many cities are filing for bankruptcy. 

 

Next time the water main breaks in front of your home, or you run over a pothole and damage your rims, just remember why your city doesn't have the money to fix those things ahead of time. 

 

so the only reason potholes exist is because firefighters salaries are too high?

 

i think you've redefined what a stretch in logic is.

 

and you are aware that broken water mains get fixed, right?

[mp170.6]

so the only reason potholes exist is because firefighters salaries are too high?

 

i think you've redefined what a stretch in logic is.

 

and you are aware that broken water mains get fixed, right?

 

My city openly admits infrastructure repairs are being deferred because an increasing chunk of tax revenue is going to pay for police and fire compensation. 

 

The entire water main system needs to be replaced, the sewers are in bad shape, and our roads are some of the worst in the county.  We have at least $750 million of repairs to make and can only afford about $15-20 million per year. 

 

I'm not suggesting the infrastructure problems are caused by police and fire employees, but they're certainly being exacerbated and prolonged by the incessant demands for more, and more, and more compensation.  They threw a fit during the recession when the city made them pay the 9% employee share into their pensions, previously paid by the city. 

[Ordos]

A few numbers for perspective:

Overtime expenditures of the LA fire department totaled just over $131 mil, $14.5 mil more than the adopted budget.

General salaries of the city as a whole totaled $1.212 bil, $40 mil less than the budgeted $1.252 bil

General fund expenditures totaled $5.402 bil, $18 mil less than the adopted budget expenditures.

General fund revenue totaled $5.604 bil, $14 mil less than the adopted budget revenue, but still above the total expenditures

[Ordos]

Even rounding to $100k average base + bonuses, the city certainly should be able to hire a number more firefighters and save on the overtime cost as a result

[Tank]

My city openly admits infrastructure repairs are being deferred because an increasing chunk of tax revenue is going to pay for police and fire compensation. 

 

The entire water main system needs to be replaced, the sewers are in bad shape, and our roads are some of the worst in the county.  We have at least $750 million of repairs to make and can only afford about $15-20 million per year. 

 

I'm not suggesting the infrastructure problems are caused by police and fire employees, but they're certainly being exacerbated and prolonged by the incessant demands for more, and more, and more compensation.  They threw a fit during the recession when the city made them pay the 9% employee share into their pensions, previously paid by the city. 

 

okay, this explanation makes a lot more sense. what city are you in?

[Adam]

okay, this explanation makes a lot more sense. what city are you in?

 

Rice, CA

[mp170.6]

Rice, CA

 

haha, I've actually been there.

 

Fullerton

[CaliAngel]

I don't get the notion that because he doesn't deem it as a large portion of budget problems that it should just be left as is.

 

I explained that in my previous posts, I don't mind Firefighters pay being left as is because they are getting paid based on their training, commitment, and danger they are willing to put themselves through. They are also not piece of sh*t human beings like most law enforcement officers attitudes we have become accustom to, and I have no problem encouraging the idea to young adults that it is a privileged honor to be a firefighter, and you can get paid well by being a force of good for the general public.

 

The income of just the top 1% of Americans in 2012 totalled over $2.6 trillion. Take 50% and you're above $1.3 trillion. Even when you subtract the taxes they already paid ($354b) you would still collect an additional $985b if their effective tax was 50%.

1/17 of our debt in one year. And that's just the top 1%. It's a terrible plan, obviously. But the money is there.

 

Still not a solution to the long term problem -- after taking 50% of all the richest peoples money, WHERE are you going to get the rest?? It needs to be sustainable, and there are much better answers without unfairly taxing, which is essentially making the wealthy who have responsibly saved and earned their money "pay" for the irresponsible economic decisions by politicians -- the solution is in the repair of the infrastructure. 

 

My city openly admits infrastructure repairs are being deferred because an increasing chunk of tax revenue is going to pay for police and fire compensation. 

 

The entire water main system needs to be replaced, the sewers are in bad shape, and our roads are some of the worst in the county.  We have at least $750 million of repairs to make and can only afford about $15-20 million per year. 

 

I'm not suggesting the infrastructure problems are caused by police and fire employees, but they're certainly being exacerbated and prolonged by the incessant demands for more, and more, and more compensation.  They threw a fit during the recession when the city made them pay the 9% employee share into their pensions, previously paid by the city. 

 

$750 Million in repairs needed, only 2.5% of that available to spend, and you want to go after firefighters who make $140,000 a year?

 

Sounds like your city has made some poor long term economic decisions, and bringing a firefighters pay down $50,000/year is not even going to begin to fix the city's problems and poor fiscal policies -- perhaps based on their financial position, your city doesn't deserve its own fire department? Some cities simply can't afford them.  I understand overpaying pensions contributes to the VAST waste of spending by the cities and the state, nobody was arguing that, I'm arguing I don't think it's relevant to start with, or put this amount of energy and emphasis on firefighters, as significantly contributing to the underlying issue.

 

Because even if you decreased 1500 firefighters (which I'm sure is high above the number of working firefighters in your city) pay $50,000/ year you would only have 10% of the money needed to get the repairs -- and again, where the are you going to get the rest?? There's got to be a better plan instead of just going after firefighters because you don't like how much their paid, and because your pissed that your city has major infrastructure repairs that they can't afford to fix because they don't know how to spend their money responsibly.

Edited March 5, 2014 by CaliAngel

[mrwicked]

Folks should spend more time focusing on improving their own lot instead of bitching about others' success. 

Edited March 5, 2014 by mrwicked

[mp170.6]

I don't know what to say about CaliAngel's infatuation with firefighters.

 

He's proven there's no merit to his logic.  The wages and pension problem is exactly the same with police, except they don't get paid to sleep.  He justifies the firefighter salary by saying "they are getting paid based on their training, commitment, and danger they are willing to put themselves through" but doesn't acknowledge the same for the police, even calling them piece of sh*t human beings.  Bottom line here, he thinks firefighters should get overpaid because they're special. 

 

And apparently he would be in full agreement if I went back and changed the word firefighter to police officer since he hates them so much?

Edited March 5, 2014 by mp170.6

[yk9001]

Folks should spend more time focusing on improving their own lot instead of bitching about others' success. 

 

 

One way to improve our lot is to not be taxed within an inch of our lives (that's a figure of speech, don't take literally) to pay for ridiculous goddamn benefits.

[tdawg87]

I don't mind Firefighters pay being left as is because they are getting paid based on their training, commitment, and danger they are willing to put themselves through.

 

How often do they get to use that training and actually put themselves in danger?

 

Also that is exactly what the police do.

 

They are also not piece of sh*t human beings like most law enforcement officers attitudes we have become accustom to

 

Oh

[mrwicked]

One way to improve our lot is to not be taxed within an inch of our lives (that's a figure of speech, don't take literally) to pay for ridiculous goddamn benefits.

 

well i agree with you there. as someone who pays a decent about of them i can say: f*ck taxes.

but once you have explored all the fun, creative ways to preserve your money and keep as much as you can from uncle sam...

ultimately realize taxes (and bad management of both tax revenues and gov't expenditures) are inevitable. so then focus on making more.

Edited March 6, 2014 by mrwicked

[Broad Street]

All I hear is people bitching and complaining about how much people make. I'm curious? What do you guys do and how much do you make? $50 says its at least twice as much as I do.

[wopphil]

Yeah CaliAngel, you may want to clarify what you said about law enforcement. Some certainly are pieces of shit, but most are not. In fact some of them are in law enforcement because they are such decent and caring people. And I think on the whole they get paid far less than firefighters, despite having a much more difficult job.

Edited March 6, 2014 by wopphil

[Angels_Make_Me_Drink]

I just read through 3+ pages and am severely disappointed that there are no references to Blanton's salary....

[Catwhoshatinthehat]

All I hear is people bitching and complaining about how much people make. I'm curious? What do you guys do and how much do you make? $50 says its at least twice as much as I do.

 

It's a moot point unless you or anyone responding is on the taxpayer dime since that's the crux of the discussion about taxpayers being on the hook for pensions that are underfunded.  

Edited March 6, 2014 by Catwhoshatinthehat

[Stradling]

All I hear is people bitching and complaining about how much people make. I'm curious? What do you guys do and how much do you make? $50 says its at least twice as much as I do.

I'm more curious how many of the people having issues with this make less than the firemen. My guess is 90%.

[Catwhoshatinthehat]

I'm more curious how many of the people having issues with this make less than the firemen. My guess is 90%.

 

Really not much of a stretch considering that in 2012 only 9% of households in the US made 150K or more.  

[Stradling]

My point is it's more about possible jealousy rather than being upset that fire fighters are overpaid.

[yk9001]

Jealousy is a red herring.  Its the same argument the same people make with Pujols.  Nobody is jealous.

 

Funny nobody ever mentions Weaver or other productive people as being overpaid.

[Broad Street]

Jealousy is a red herring. Its the same argument the same people make with Pujols. Nobody is jealous.

Funny nobody ever mentions Weaver or other productive people as being overpaid.

All Major Leaguers are overpaid.

[mp170.6]

My point is it's more about possible jealousy rather than being upset that fire fighters are overpaid.

 

Not at all. 

 

This is about long-term survival for your local city.  People would be horrified to dig deep into their city's budget to understand the accounting gimmicks needed to "balance" the books.  Police and fire compensation is typically a city's biggest expenditure.  Failing to take control of that now will lead to disastrous results in the future, and a small to medium-sized city has very few options to rescue themselves from financial ruin. 

 

I'm tired of politicians kicking the can down the road for future generations to deal with these problems.  That's not fair to our kids. 

[yk9001]

All Major Leaguers are overpaid.

 

 

So - if you don't like major leaguers, you don't have to contribute one cent.

Taxpayers don't have that option.