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Average LA City firefighter salary last year: $142k


yk9001

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mp nobody cares, why does it seem like you hate Fire Fighters so much? It's not like paying them less is going to save America's economy or get our asses out of debt. 

 

Some people are fine with Fire Fighters making lots of money, especially if they are understaffed and working over time. 

 

Get over it. 

 

 

You still haven't justified why firefighters should be paid $70/hour for their normal nighttime rest. 

 

Yes, I did, and it's common sense. People go into careers like the transportation industry (airlines, railroads, marine, trucking) knowing damn well what they're getting themselves into when they sign up. If they don't like it, if they want to get paid $70/hour to sleep while they're on call, they should have tried to become firefighters. We've all known since we were kids that firefighters get paid to hang out at the firehouse when nothings going on. They are still on call and they are still responsible for putting out fires or saving lives at the flip of a switch.

 

You say it's normal night time rest, how many times have you gone to bed with the fact that you might have to wake up at any time during the night to put your life in danger hanging around in the back of your mind?

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Speak for yourself.  I just did a (mini) triathlon last weekend at 49 years old, - not sure many of the fatasses here could say the same, and could have easily passed the firefighter stuff.  I never gave two thoughts about firefighters until I started seeing the pensions, and hearing about all the double dipping scams and pension spikes.  They are rotten thieves, not heroes..  The salaries (this thread) don't especially bother me as much as the Cadillac pensions and benefits we taxpayers are on the hook for.

 

 

 

Watch what you say.  CaliAngel will challenge you to a cage match and then will rape you in front of your family after he wins the fight.

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mp nobody cares, why does it seem like you hate Fire Fighters so much? It's not like paying them less is going to save America's economy or get our asses out of debt. 

 

Some people are fine with Fire Fighters making lots of money, especially if they are understaffed and working over time. 

 

Get over it.

 

I definitely don't hate firefighters.  I just dislike the entitlement mentality common among urban firefighters in places like California. 

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It's not entitlement. They're working overtime because the state can't afford to hire new ones. Would YOU refuse overtime if it was offered and there was nobody else to do the job while you were gone?

 

Watch what you say.  CaliAngel will challenge you to a cage match and then will rape you in front of your family after he wins the fight.

 

And don't you f**kin' forget it!

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Yes, I did, and it's common sense. People go into careers like the transportation industry (airlines, railroads, marine, trucking) knowing damn well what they're getting themselves into when they sign up. If they don't like it, if they want to get paid $70/hour to sleep while they're on call, they should have tried to become firefighters. We've all known since we were kids that firefighters get paid to hang out at the firehouse when nothings going on. They are still on call and they are still responsible for putting out fires or saving lives at the flip of a switch.

 

You say it's normal night time rest, how many times have you gone to bed with the fact that you might have to wake up at any time during the night to put your life in danger hanging around in the back of your mind?

 

You're avoiding the question I asked.  This has nothing to do with what people signed up for.  Doctors are on-call during the night if one of their patients needs them at the hospital.  They don't get paid unless they are needed. 

 

What is so special about firefighters that they should be paid to sleep? 

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It's not entitlement. They're working overtime because the state can't afford to hire new ones. Would YOU refuse overtime if it was offered and there was nobody else to do the job while you were gone?

 

 

And don't you f**kin' forget it!

 

They can't afford additional firefighters because firefighter pay, benefits, and pensions are so expensive in the first place.  Paid overtime is the consequence.  The fire unions knew this would happen all along.

 

I don't get overtime in my line of work, but I've declined bonuses that I didn't feel I earned. 

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Paying firefighters has little to do with 'mericas economy it's a state/city issue.  State/city pensions are by and large grossly underfunded across the US and like mounting unfunded liabilities the US government is facing they are a major concern.  Some people are fine with a lot of stuff but that doesn't make it alright or more importantly in this case mean states and cities can afford it.  Promises or deals were made before most of us were born that quite frankly aren't sustainable when it comes to pensions in CA.    

Edited by Catwhoshatinthehat
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i have no problem with the salary firefighters make. i think they more than earn their keep, especially in the brutally hot months where the fire bugs are setting all kinds of fires that these guys are obligated to contain for our safety.

 

where there is abuse in any system, it should be fixed, and that goes for both firefighters and accountants.

 

 

Until you realize CA has an inmate program where inmates go out to these brush fires and are the ones digging lines for them to contain fires.

 

I've never been one to say what someone should or shouldn't make, but when you consider it's taxpayer money and the state can't afford the pensions it seems a bit out of line.

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You're avoiding the question I asked.  This has nothing to do with what people signed up for.  Doctors are on-call during the night if one of their patients needs them at the hospital.  They don't get paid unless they are needed. 

 

What is so special about firefighters that they should be paid to sleep? 

 

Can't tell if you're joking or just being thick-skulled on purpose. I think we can agree that firefighting is a unique career choice, unlike any other that you continue to bring up and compare to, and that it is very competitive and very hard to get into. It's not like there's hundreds of thousands of jobs at each station, and firefighters know they're lucky to be in the position they have. There only 20,300 employed firefighters in California, and cutting pensions or benefits from them is not going to be the solution to this states spending problems.  

 

Doctors are not in a life threatening field. Doctors may be on-call, but they're laying in bed with their wife and kids AT HOME. Doctors sign up for the job knowing they don't get paid unless they're needed.

 

Firefighters get paid to sleep because of the unique requirements entailed in the job. Firefighters get paid to sleep because a majority of people aren't willing to put their lives at risk based on a career choice. Firefighters get paid to sleep because they need to be stationed near the emergency equipment and need to get ready to go immediately. They don’t have time to be at home, to kiss their wife and kids good bye, to grab a coffee, get in their car and drive to the station to prepare to fight a fire. They need to be ready to go, and they need to be ready to go NOW at any given time.

 

Whether or not you think the job of being a firefighter is "special" enough of a position to warrant pay during sleeping is irrelevant and purely subjective. The fact that they're firefighters and that's what they were agreed to get paid when they signed up to work there is all that matters. And a lot of people are fine with that. 

 

You may not like it, and you may not have taken bonuses you don't think you earned but that's you're choice. And who's to say Firefighters haven't earned it? It's a life style choice they made, one that I would need significant salary and pay increase to even consider.  I know damn well I would never want to be a firefighter even if that salary was doubled. And yeah people can say this and that how its not deserved, but they don't know, and when it gets down to it I think a lot of people would never even consider going into the field because like me they feel the same way. 

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First of all, I love these threads. LOVE them. I think we should have a firefighting thread at least once a year, because no other threads are as entertaining.

Second, I work with a bunch of attorneys who make decent money. Almost every single one of us would turn over the bar card in a heartbeat for a $142k per year firefighting gig. Most of us wouldn't know what to do with all the free time and PTO we woukd suddenly have. We would all be in better physical shape, we wouldn't have student loan debt, and we wouldn't be planning to work until we are 70.

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Can't tell if you're joking or just being thick-skulled on purpose. I think we can agree that firefighting is a unique career choice, unlike any other that you continue to bring up and compare to, and that it is very competitive and very hard to get into. It's not like there's hundreds of thousands of jobs at each station, and firefighters know they're lucky to be in the position they have. There only 20,300 employed firefighters in California, and cutting pensions or benefits from them is not going to be the solution to this states spending problems.  

 

Doctors are not in a life threatening field. Doctors may be on-call, but they're laying in bed with their wife and kids AT HOME. Doctors sign up for the job knowing they don't get paid unless they're needed.

 

Firefighters get paid to sleep because of the unique requirements entailed in the job. Firefighters get paid to sleep because a majority of people aren't willing to put their lives at risk based on a career choice. Firefighters get paid to sleep because they need to be stationed near the emergency equipment and need to get ready to go immediately. They don’t have time to be at home, to kiss their wife and kids good bye, to grab a coffee, get in their car and drive to the station to prepare to fight a fire. They need to be ready to go, and they need to be ready to go NOW at any given time.

 

Whether or not you think the job of being a firefighter is "special" enough of a position to warrant pay during sleeping is irrelevant and purely subjective. The fact that they're firefighters and that's what they were agreed to get paid when they signed up to work there is all that matters. And a lot of people are fine with that. 

 

You may not like it, and you may not have taken bonuses you don't think you earned but that's you're choice. And who's to say Firefighters haven't earned it? It's a life style choice they made, one that I would need significant salary and pay increase to even consider.  I know damn well I would never want to be a firefighter even if that salary was doubled. And yeah people can say this and that how its not deserved, but they don't know, and when it gets down to it I think a lot of people would never even consider going into the field because like me they feel the same way. 

 

We're looking at this from different sides of the same coin.  You're justifying their salaries on a personal career choice level, I'm arguing against them because it's simply unsustainable for the people who have to pay for it (you and me and everyone else).  As for your other points...

 

1.  Firefighting doesn't even fall into the Top 10 most dangerous jobs.  Advances in technology and better training have made the job far safer than it once was.  Is there risk in firefighting?  Yes, but nowhere near the danger experienced by loggers, fishermen, roofers, miners, and other industrial and transportation trades.  You can dispute this all you want but the government's own data backs this up. 

 

2.  I never said doctors were in a life-threatening field.  What I was implying is that they save lives too by working on call, and without being paid to sleep.  Their role in somebody's medical treatment is arguably more important than the firefighters who bring the patient to the hospital. 

 

3.  Millions of people make career choices far more dangerous than firefighting for a fraction of the salary. 

 

4.  So what if paid firefighters are away from their families for 3 days a week.  They get 3 to 4 days off afterwards.  Most firefighters like this schedule because they're able to take short family vacations without having to use vacation time.  A guy I went to high school with used to brag about it because on his days off, he and his wife could have lots of uninterrupted sex while the kids were gone to school. 

 

5.  What firefighters receive in wages, benefits, and pensions is my business -- and yours -- because we're the ones who pay for it.  Many California cities have reduced other public services (such as libraries and parks) and have deferred necessary infrastructure repairs because they can't afford them.  We're going to see many more California cities pushed into bankruptcy in the coming years. 

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The days after 9/11 was the fellate a firefighter era. At some point you're paying not for what one does day-to-day but what one is expected to be prepared and trained to do. There's not much chance of cutting their pay so maybe it's better to increase expectations of what they can do and what they actually do.

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I don't know about better shape.

 

I have buddies that are firefighters and they joke about winning the lottery.

 

 

One of my best friends is a firefighter.  Never ever brags about how good he has it, is actually humbled by the largesse he receives.

 

A few years ago in Vegas, he's goofing around, flirting with a cocktail waitress.  He says he's a firefighter in California.. She can have half his pension if she stays 10 years with him.  She laughs and says "sure"...  We found it funny that a Vegas cocktail waitress in her 20's knew exactly about the worth of a California firefighter pension.

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To be fair, it was many years ago and we were all drinking at a bar. We were just drinking and all kind of jokingly one upping each other. They walked around with a sense of bravado, but I would't say they were typically bragadocious.

 

I think it's now gotten to a point where they don't even like to talk about it because of the public backlash.

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To be fair, it was many years ago and we were all drinking at a bar. We were just drinking and all kind of jokingly one upping each other. They walked around with a sense of bravado, but I would't say they were typically bragadocious.

 

I think it's now gotten to a point where they don't even like to talk about it because of the public backlash.

 

 

Yeah my friend says he catches a lot of shit for it (not from me) and he's 10 years away from seeing a penny of it.

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I work with firefighters. They are all great guys.

Life is different in Utah though. They are not compensated nearly as much as in ca. My brother in law is a cop in ca and they want to get out of California for a lot of reasons but the decrease in pay and overtime makes it very hard to leave. He knows cops in vegas, oregon, idaho, and Utah and the overtime pay is not as accessible. ....... who knows if that is really true though

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You're justifying their salaries on a personal career choice level, I'm arguing against them because it's simply unsustainable for the people who have to pay for it (you and me and everyone else). 

 

This is just not true at all, it's completely sustainable if the state was not so poorly organized economically. Are you aware of the tax dollars that go flowing into our states hands, and how terribly it's spent and distributed? You want to sit here and act like paying firefighters their wages contributes to the states monetary problems WAY more than how terribly the politicians spend our taxes. Not only are these sentiments wrong, they're ridiculous.

 

It's like being pissed off at the rich because how much money they make, and thinking that by taxing the shit out of them you're going to make a difference in the national debt or countries spending problems. Just like acting that cutting Fire Fighter pay is going to somehow substantially increase the money available to the state. But it won't. The fact is that even if you took 50% of the wages of the top 5% of the rich and put them towards the national debt, it wouldn't even make a dent. So then we're back in the same place we started by taking 1/2 of the riches money while not doing shit and not fixing THE PROBLEM. I understand the way the state operates is unsustainable, but by somehow justifying that cutting firefighter pay is going to somehow fix or make a difference in their terrible economic habits is like trying to plug a pool drain with a sewing needle. 

 

1.  Firefighting doesn't even fall into the Top 10 most dangerous jobs.  Advances in technology and better training have made the job far safer than it once was.  Is there risk in firefighting?  Yes, but nowhere near the danger experienced by loggers, fishermen, roofers, miners, and other industrial and transportation trades.  You can dispute this all you want but the government's own data backs this up.  

 

I'm trying to figure out how these statements are even relevant to your position in this argument. They're not.

 

CEO's sit at a desk and have filet mignon for lunch, I guess because their job is not dangerous they should get paid less than a logger or miner? 

 

It's not just 1 or 2 things like "danger" that makes up a firefighters pay, it's a combination of the privilege, responsibilities, and skills, as well as the training and danger that contributes to the pay a firefighter receives.

 

2.  I never said doctors were in a life-threatening field.  What I was implying is that they save lives too by working on call, and without being paid to sleep.  Their role in somebody's medical treatment is arguably more important than the firefighters who bring the patient to the hospital. 

 

If doctors slept at the hospital so they were able to assist for any emergency that came up within minutes, I would have no problem if they got paid to sleep as well. 

 

3.  Millions of people make career choices far more dangerous than firefighting for a fraction of the salary. 

 

And that's their choice to work for a private company for that pay. It has nothing to do with what firefighter's should get paid. You're comparing apples to oranges.

 

4.  So what if paid firefighters are away from their families for 3 days a week.  They get 3 to 4 days off afterwards.  Most firefighters like this schedule because they're able to take short family vacations without having to use vacation time.  A guy I went to high school with used to brag about it because on his days off, he and his wife could have lots of uninterrupted sex while the kids were gone to school.  

 

"So what?" if they're away from their family? Great defense! I guess that just doesn't count because you don't want it to?? Because you don't get to have lots of uninterrupted sex as well??

 

I was justifying getting paid while they sleep, and that's why it's justified - because they're at work, and they're on call. I don't care about the ONE "guy you went to HS with"  who brags.

 

5.  What firefighters receive in wages, benefits, and pensions is my business -- and yours -- because we're the ones who pay for it.  Many California cities have reduced other public services (such as libraries and parks) and have deferred necessary infrastructure repairs because they can't afford them.  We're going to see many more California cities pushed into bankruptcy in the coming years. 

 

And blaming the firefighters, or cutting pay for firefighters, or arguing that firefighters shouldn't get their contracted pay because it's causing the state to go bankrupt is ludicrous.

 

Look, firefighting is a privileged job, and it's hard to get into. Firefighters that I've come across since I was a kid, and as I've grown up, and friends I know who have become firefighters are for the most part great guys, and unfortunately the same can't be said for similarly held public positions like police officers who won't even say hi at the gas station. This is why I have NO PROBLEM continuing to keep firefighting a privileged job where people get paid well to work in a field where their reputation proceeds them, and where they are quality people. That's important to me, and that's important to have in this country, and it's important to have in the communities they serve. It's a position for every American, young and old, to look up to.

 

And it just seems like this continuous "knocking down" of each and every admired position we have in society these days to try and blame what they get paid for our economic problems is becoming way too common. And it's inaccurate. And this antagonistic attitude to try and take away their "hero" status, to critique how much they get paid like they're assholes for doing so, has become an easy way to go about pointing blame for our monetary problems. It distracts the focus from what the real economic problems are while providing no solutions, while attempting to take away the great honor it is to be a firefighter. And it's a shame there are people that feel they have to take it upon themselves to contribute to those kinds of mentalities, because really they're doing no productive good for society, or for anybody.

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I don't get the notion that because he doesn't deem it as a large portion of budget problems that it should just be left as is.

 

 

Yeah, that makes no sense to me.

 

Its factually incorrect, as well as just wrong from a viewpoint of having a viable government.

 

The Calsters pension, the 2nd largest pension in the state, has a $71 billion unfunded liability.  The State is responsible of the shortfall.  Calpers is at 80 billion (not all firefighters of course)..

 

$150 billion not a budget problem???  WTF?

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It's like being pissed off at the rich because how much money they make, and thinking that by taxing the shit out of them you're going to make a difference in the national debt or countries spending problems. Just like acting that cutting Fire Fighter pay is going to somehow substantially increase the money available to the state. But it won't. The fact is that even if you took 50% of the wages of the top 5% of the rich and put them towards the national debt, it wouldn't even make a dent.

The income of just the top 1% of Americans in 2012 totalled over $2.6 trillion. Take 50% and you're above $1.3 trillion. Even when you subtract the taxes they already paid ($354b) you would still collect an additional $985b if their effective tax was 50%.

1/17 of our debt in one year. And that's just the top 1%. It's a terrible plan, obviously. But the money is there.

Edited by HaloMagic
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My brother in law is a cop in ca and they want to get out of California for a lot of reasons but the decrease in pay and overtime makes it very hard to leave. He knows cops in vegas, oregon, idaho, and Utah and the overtime pay is not as accessible. ....... who knows if that is really true though

 

I can't speak for local cops, but firefighter pay was quite the scandal here for a while. Firefighters - including many supervisors who were in on the scheme - were trading sick leave for overtime. How it worked: I take three weeks off on sick leave (not necessarily all at once, but it could be). Before I take it I tip you off, so that you can slide in and scoop up the overtime. Then you do the same for me. Pay was well into six figures for most of the people involved.

 

My understanding is that the city's contract with firefighters has since been revised to eliminate this loophole.

 

Story from the Las Vegas Sun, 2010

Edited by Vegas Halo Fan
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One of my best friends is a firefighter.  Never ever brags about how good he has it, is actually humbled by the largesse he receives.

 

A few years ago in Vegas, he's goofing around, flirting with a cocktail waitress.  He says he's a firefighter in California.. She can have half his pension if she stays 10 years with him.  She laughs and says "sure"...  We found it funny that a Vegas cocktail waitress in her 20's knew exactly about the worth of a California firefighter pension.

 

Shocking to hear Las Vegas coctail waitresses are professional golddiggers.

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