Dying Vet's Letter to Bush & Cheney

[Lifetime]

Had Saddam been forthcoming and transparent all along rather than secretive and continually defiant the invasion likely never would have happened. And yes, they were violating the treaties because they were not complying with the verification process that was part of the treaty stipulations. Discoveries after the fact, hindsight, is a great way to evaluate reasoning at the onset.

And yes, they "controlled" terrorist activities while also acting as brutal dictators against their own people. You might want to look at the data regarding the number of Iraqi victims Saddam regime was responsible for.

[Blarg]

Just because the United Nations inspectors coud not find anything in ten years of searching doesn't mean Iraq was not in compliance. We entrered their nation without just cause. It was under a series of false accusations and non existent proof of WMDs being present inside their borders. Iraq's protests of being harrased went without response in the UN which is supposed to be a nuetral arbitrator.  

[Lifetime]

Exactly. It should be "Oil, money and Israel."

this is even more ridiculous

[Lifetime]

Just because the United Nations inspectors coud not find anything in ten years of searching doesn't mean Iraq was not in compliance. We entrered their nation without just cause. It was under a series of false accusations and non existent proof of WMDs being present inside their borders. Iraq's protests of being harrased went without response in the UN which is supposed to be a nuetral arbitrator.

lol nice revisionism there blarg. The inspectors were not given the verification or access required and Saddam continued to be defiant and secretive to the process. That is not compliance. Iraq was being "harassed" as a result of continued defiance

[Blarg]

The UN was given access to every site on their list. They were not given access to sites not on their list in a suprise visit. Any leader of a country would be defiant after over ten years of granting entrusion into their military and public facilities. That is not cause for a full scale invasion of a country.

 

The evidence of WMDs was falsified and never verified before being pushed through a puppet UN for approval to commence war with an nation that was not a threat to it's neighbors or the US. This was an injustice to Iraq as a nation.

[Lifetime]

They were not given the required verification, ever. Which is why the alternate locations were added to the list. They were also not given unfettered access to the list over the 10 year span either. They didn't grant extrusion, extrusion was demanded as a result of compliance with treaties. And they were far from forthright during that period. Implying that they were above board and forthcoming with the stipulations is fallacy.

[nate]

I tend to feel that the whole Iraq war was a waste of money and a load of crap, making up for Bush Sr's failure there however this whole letter is a load of crap.

 

Full disclosure, I voted for Bush both times.  Gore and Kerry would not have been better for this country then him.  Just like McCain would have been better for this country than Obama.

[Lhalo]

Exactly. It should be "Oil, money and Israel."

  

this is even more ridiculous

How is it more ridiculous? Israel has a major influence on our foreign policy regarding the Middle East and they wanted Saddam dead ever since he launched Scud missiles into Tel Aviv and other parts of the country.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Bramble_Bush

I'm not saying their influence was right or wrong. I'm simply saying it existed and in the grand scheme of things Israel was one of the reasons we invaded Iraq again.

[Lifetime]

There is zero evidence to support that. Israel had issues with Iraq therefore Israel was an influence on the decision to invade Iraq is a logical fail.

[Vegas Halo Fan]

We entrered their nation without just cause. It was under a series of false accusations and non existent proof of WMDs being present inside their borders.  

 

Bingo. This was not like Desert Storm, when Iraq invaded and assumed control over another sovereign nation. We did exactly what they had done, but somehow, since it was the United States it was all right.

[Lifetime]

Um, no. We didn't do the same thing they had done, not even close.

[Blarg]

You are right, we were better armed and much more efficient.

[Lifetime]

You are right, we were better armed and much more efficient.

[Futch Winkleman]

Why did we go in there then?

 

Becase God told Bush to invade Iraq.

[Glen]

Becase God told Bush to invade Iraq.

 

 

Nobody goes to war thinking God isn't on their side.

[Lhalo]

There is zero evidence to support that. Israel had issues with Iraq therefore Israel was an influence on the decision to invade Iraq is a logical fail.

Israel wanted Saddam dead->Israel was/is a major US ally->Israel influenced/influences US foreign policy in the Middle East

 

Let's not forget that part LT.

 

I had no problem with the Israelis trying to get us to attack Saddam. It's their neighborhood and we're a military superpower. I still think both US/Iraq wars were a mistake though.

[Angel Oracle]

And just why did we need to take out Saddam for good, W?    What threat did he pose once his invading of Kuwait was neutered during Desert Storm?

[Lifetime]

Israel wanted Saddam dead->Israel was/is a major US ally->Israel influenced/influences US foreign policy in the Middle East

 

Let's not forget that part LT.

 

I had no problem with the Israelis trying to get us to attack Saddam. It's their neighborhood and we're a military superpower. I still think both US/Iraq wars were a mistake though.

I'm not forgetting anything. Let's avoid the cum hoc fallacy argument.

[Angels Never Die]

Is he implying that the US military used propaganda and false pretenses to recruit people to join? Wow, that's a crime of epic proportions, a crime that you've only seen since...well, since there's been recruitment offices. Yeah, he's generally right in his criticism of the war, but I don't feel sorry for someone who feels special because he happened to be tricked by 9/11 rather than some other source of emotional manipulation. He signed up to be a perpetual order-taking machine, a four-year indentured servant to the US government, and now he's indignant that his deployment didn't live up to his standards and expectations?  If the US was interested in living up to that, they wouldn't make you sign 4 year commitments. It's sad that he's dying, it's sad that they go to schools to manipulate kids into throwing themselves in front of bullets, but he fell for the oldest trick in the book. Nothing about the way he was recruited, or about the Iraq War were exceptions to how the US goverment typically operates.

[Lhalo]

I'm not forgetting anything. Let's avoid the cum hoc fallacy argument.

Just trying to sprinkle in a little obviousness.

[Lifetime]

I think you meant obliviousness.... j/k

[Vegas Halo Fan]

Yeah, he's generally right in his criticism of the war, but I don't feel sorry for someone who feels special because he happened to be tricked by 9/11 rather than some other source of emotional manipulation. He signed up to be a perpetual order-taking machine, a four-year indentured servant to the US government, and now he's indignant that his deployment didn't live up to his standards and expectations?

 

I didn't get that at all. His resentment comes from the fact that he received his injuries being deployed somewhere we had no business being, rather than seeking out the terrorists like he signed up to do. He specifically stated that he signed up to go after the terrorists, and that had he been injured doing that he would have no problem with it. He was sent on a senseless mission and he paid a high price for it. I get exactly where he is coming from.

[Angels Never Die]

I didn't get that at all. His resentment comes from the fact that he received his injuries being deployed somewhere we had no business being, rather than seeking out the terrorists like he signed up to do. He specifically stated that he signed up to go after the terrorists, and that had he been injured doing that he would have no problem with it. He was sent on a senseless mission and he paid a high price for it. I get exactly where he is coming from.

 

I understand exactly where his resentment comes from and my response is to that. You don't get to pick and choose who you fight in the military, you go where the US government says to go and fight who they say to fight. You don't get to pick who your enemy is just because that's the pretense you signed with, that's not how the military works. When you sign up, you're theirs, you're a human machine at their discretion.

[Jay]

I feel bad for the kid but if he wants to blame somebody it should be himself for joining the military, not the government for sending him to Iraq.

[arch stanton]

The gist of it is that without 9/11 and the huge swell of enlistments that followed the Iraq war would not have been possible. I think he speaks for many who feel they were duped. It would be pretty tough for anyone to muster an argument that we would not have been farther advanced in the war on terror if they had not sidetracked all those soldiers into going to Iraq.